Hrothgar Feedback Thread

[Midareyukki]

This is a thread to provide Square Enix with concise and organized feedback from fans about the state of the Hrothgar race, the playerbase’s outlook it and what we hope can be done to improve content made for us.

I’d like to preface this by saying we understand there are nuances when it comes to making a videogame. Whether it is finances, decisions from higher ups or technological limitations. Our objectives must be within the boundaries of possibility and reality, not wishful thinking.

What Led to This

Though this follows the aftermath of the “6.1 Hrothgar Hairstyles” topic, the situation goes beyond that.

When Hrothgar were announced, it was said we would be a single-gender race, like Viera at the time. That due to constraints, making headgear for us would not be feasible. We were led to believe this was temporary, and that a good reception would change the minds of those making the game. After all, that happened before, in other content. But that was not the case. It’s been over 3 years, and Square Enix’s stance remains the same, though inconsistent, as some headpieces do fit us while others don’t.

When the Benchmark for Shadowbringers was released, it was revealed Hrothgar had no option to change hairstyles. If one wanted to change to their counterpart hair, they would have to pay real money for a Fantasia and change their head entirely. Only with 6.1 has it changed, and the most painful part is how Square never acknowledged it.

We were told we would get more customization in 6.1. Hrothgar players eagerly awaited for the announcement in LLs, which did not happen until the final one before the patch. On April 1st, notorious for being April Fool’s, the devs presented the implemented hairstyles. Not only were they considered “the worst fitting” by a crushing majority of Hrothgar players, they were quickly derided as awful by the rest of the playerbase… with a lack of ears to rub salt in the wound.

Indeed, we were told by Yoshida himself the reason our hairstyles would not feature ears is due to the way our heads are designed. An idea later parroted by Zhexos, our Community Representative. The excuse convinced no one, and if anything, served to spark even more outrage. People with a technological understanding of how the game is made showed us what the problem was and how the characters were assembled. Modders also proved how even with a different head form, it was very much still possible to make fitting hairstyles without culling ears without much fuss.

Worse: Yoshida claimed to be surprised that we reacted with outrage. Considering this was the reaction of the majority of the playerbase, it shows an unpleasant disconnect.

Finally, once players voiced their discomfort and fear that these hairstyles would not be featured in the Aesthetician, as Square never acknowledged the issue, the final patch notes were edited to feature a note informing us they would be. But even that came with a cost.

[Midareyukki]

Due to a lack of additions to Hrothgar and Viera, among other reasons, many turned to modding. Though it is against the ToS to do so, many players felt they were getting more from mods on customization than they did with Square’s work.

Then there is the silence about Hrothgars, with players feeling that all the attention is concentrated onto Viera. Viera are always the first to be referred to in LL’s, Hrothgar were second, if mentioned at all. Or as stated before, us needing to buy a fantasia to change hairstyles was never acknowledged. As we understand it, this is due to Viera being more popular than Hrothgar.

Yet popularity is nurtured. Beast-type races are not the most played in MMOs, and indeed the number of Hrothgar players reflects that. However, we find the number to be diminished due to factors such as how Hrothgar and Viera are notoriously incomplete, with limitations that do not exist in other races. As well as Square not promoting Hrothgar in a healthy way for the playerbase.

Bozja is content meant to promote Hrothgars, yes, but the way it was handled was shoddy. Not only is Hrothgar lore lacking due to cultural erasure, a lot of it is contradicting and based on Sharlayan assumptions, and what little we did have got ruined:
- Queen Gunnhildr is retconned into a female Roegadyn
- The Blades are introduced, then immediately killed
- The Warrior of Light's failure to save them, despite Delubrum's story being tied to us finding a cure for Tempering in the MSQ, which we must clear to access DR.

The major Hrothgar NPCs outside of Bozja are:
- Runar, a positive portrayal who, despite having left a lasting impression on Y’shtola and becomes her motivation, is never once mentioned by name in Endwalker
- Magnus, a mixed portrayal, whose role is remembered by most as starting out hostile to the player due to extreme depression and loss
- Radovan, who is optional, a former Bozjan soldier with clear trauma and suffering who is told to “just move on” by an insensitive Viera “partner”.
- Rostik demands players beat side-content to get to know him
There were no Hrothgar in EW’s MSQ. Mute Bozjan NPCs do not count when Male Viera had a voiced portrayal, despite being “rarer”.

We remember there was “hard work done behind Yoshida” before SHB to implement headgear for us. But even the headgear we have does not properly fit our faces.

All this led to our reaction when 6.1 was released.

[Midareyukki]

Players have analyzed the game and the way it is structured, leading to some particularly awkward reveals in 6.1. In simple terms:

a) Rather than decoupling racial Hrothgar hairstyles from the head’s model to make them available in the Aesthetician, the developers simply duplicated the head models. There is actually a total of 32 heads: 16 are the original ones (8 for Helions and 8 for the Lost), the rest are duplicates. Meaning you’re still changing your head model when you change racial hairstyles.

This is suspicious. Other races do not have this quirk. Considering the final patch notes for 6.1 had a last-minute red note on the Aesthetician makes us wonder if this was a last-minute change.

b) We were told twice our head models are done differently. Hrothgar ears are tied to their head model, unlike Miqo’te whose ears are separate from their head. Square maintains that this gets in the way of making hair. Square’s phobia of clipping side, which a good portion of the playerbase does not share, why not detach the ears like on other races?

No, what Square did was isolate the ears’s polygons and hide them entirely. We’re told that “it would be too much work”… but there’s a solution. Since they isolated the ears to render them invisible, they could have just as well separated them and done what they did for Miqo’te. Other races do not suffer from this.

This has been done by amateurs. Source 1. And Source 2.

c) We know that the way Hrothgars are done is sloppy. Polygons in the wrong place, reused assets and a growing danger of things not working the way they were intended in the future. We feel designed from the start to fail on-launch.

We know Square intends to upscale the legacy races in the following patches. But I fear the priorities are jumbled here. Because it’s clear other races are in a larger need of attention before the classic races get their lift. Otherwise it’s just more years with a sub-par character we paid for.

[Midareyukki]

d) This it isn’t a problem with heads: we have hairstyles altered to fit both Miqo’te and Roegadyn heads. And modders have been able make hair with better results and quality. So why not alter the hairstyle like they did? Oh… Bravo on the attempt?


This is discriminatory and grossly lacking in effort.

According to Yoshida, he is aware people are upset and claimed to work hard to fix this issue at a later date. Yet the wording perpetuates this inaccurate notion that “it’s too hard” when it isn’t, and that they’ve only now found out about this when amateurs have been exposing it for years.

Nor do we want it done “now”. We just want it done responsibly. Yoshida assumes that we are demanding a quick and easy fix, but this is pinning the blame on the playerbase. For one, players waited for three years for attention, and this is the best you have? Earless Potato 2B? And then, we understand how slowly it’s taken Square Enix to do anything. We wouldn’t be asking for quick and immediate content for us, because it’s clear that even when we’re patient, Earless Potato 2B is the best we get!

You are the ones dejecting your own quality, not the fans.

And it’s on you to figure out what you can do and allocate resources for it. Not wing the situation and expect people to take it. We are not a meme race, and we are not letting you turn us into one.

d) When you take all that’s been said, it proves why people are so allured by third party tools. If it took not even a week for people to make something like this, then you, Square Enix, a multi-million dollar company with cutting edge technology and people with experience in making 3D characters, need to step up your game.

When your own apologies do not match your words, Square, we have a problem. One called bias.

We were told “No expenses were spared” in Endwalker. Yet our experience has been limited for years, and it feels the devs only think of us at the last minute.

Is “your best” for us malicious compliance? Are all of us wishing on a monkey's paw?

Grapes had more attention than we did.

[Midareyukki]

I hope the previous three posts made it clearer why Hrothgar players have felt neglected for the past 3 years. Why we consider the current situation unacceptable. We understand there have been limitations (COVID, work on FF16). But it’s still not enough a justification for the way this situation has been handled: with low effort, silence and dismissal. Thus:

1 – We ask you review your priorities when it comes to these races. We wish for what’s already implemented to be fixed and treated like everyone else. Hrothgar feel discriminated by the development team

2 – We demand transparency. It’s clear the communication between developers and fans has been one-sided. It makes it easy to ignore the voices of those who feel slighted (such as us being unable to change hairstyles without buying an item with real-life money), and also serves to perpetuate misconceptions about the state of the game. Ones which fans with proper know-how are able to analyze and expose

3 – We wish for more effort from the development team when it comes to content made for us. 6.1 is rushed. It’s disrespectful. Fans perceived the announcement on April Fool’s, with the devs giggling on-camera to horrendous and meme-worthy renders of “Karen Hrothgar”, as negative and dismissive. The devs should have realized it and known better rather than act surprised

4 – Seek to listen to us. Rather than excuses, understand what fans of this race want. Don’t let others speak for us.

5 – Acknowledge our patience. Our silence was patience and faith, not quiet consent.

6 – Hrothgar may be 2% of the playerbase, but you promised no fan would be left out. That if a demographic complained, you'd listen. Honour your word.

7 – Strive for better quality for us in the future. Do not neglect us.

It’s likely that there are many more sentiments the Hrothgar community wishes to express, which I likely skipped or could not fit into an already-lengthy thread.
Which is why I invite Hrothgar players to comment their sentiments and feedback here in a structured way.

Put forward your opinions and knowledge on the situation, with better clarifications if required, and give proper feedback on the situation so the game grows healthily with our race in toe.

But do not speak for the development team. Please understand there has been bad faith on both sides and we Hrothgar players seek to mend it. This is our foot forward. Allow us the chance to communicate to the development team about our grievances, and allow THEM to properly assess and respond.

And please do not give feedback on other races here, as while our situation overlaps others, it is not the same. We want the devs to hear Hrothgars’ very limited voice.

[Nyxs]

How can it overlap but not the same? A bunch of races need an overhaul. The old ones need animations fixes etc as well.

[Vahlnir]

How can it overlap but not the same? A bunch of races need an overhaul. The old ones need animations fixes etc as well.

Because the older races aren't wanting for anything. They are not limited in any capacity. So yeah, let's keep this thread on track please in the hopes (however slim they may be) that the dev team sees this. This is about Hrothgar, which are in dire need of...well, anything really at this point.

[orakernel]

I'm going to throw my two cents on how to start fixing this problem from a post I did back in April in here, so it's also counted in case the community team decides to check the thread. New stuff will be in Italics.

* I would tackle new Hrothgar hairstyles as I prefer them in real life. The hairdresses/dev team can have all the time they need to do a proper hairstyle, as long as my ears aren't chopped. Also don't leave us 2 years in the dark with "it's going to come soon", proper transparency on these matters would be appreciated (adding this in June, just like the team did with the housing, pvp and packet loss problem, people want this type of transparency for this matter as well)
* Please ask via forums or polls, which existing hairstyles do players want for these races. The ones chosen are popular on other races but definitively don't look good on Hrothgars.
* I don't care about ears clipping on the hair, and most other people don't care as well as it has been demonstrated on several other posts.
* Another option would be doing a hairstyle contest as it was done in the past but for Hrothgars, as it's currently the race that most problems seem to have towards having new designs. We had both weapon contests recently so, having a Hrothgar one wouldn't be weird to do.

[Lustre]

+1 take my bump. Not affected, but as someone who really liked the Ronso in FFX I was very close to swapping to Hrothgar at one point. Sadly looking at the lack of attention/care/time given, the fact loads of gear looks bad or doesnt display at all, I decided against it. A shame, but hopefully we will see some well deserved attention in the future.

[XiRon]

No. I'm tired of seeing hrothgar players saying "the devs can have more time" or "I'm willing to be patient". It's been 3 years since hrothgar were added to xiv. 3 years. 3 years of paying our subs, playing thru each update, getting things on the shop, etc etc. three years of hrothgar players getting absolutely NOTHING from the devs and when we finally do? It's a middle finger.

The devs ABSOLUTELY have the means to update hrothgar properly every patch like they are the new golden child Viera. Hrothgar are paying the same sub as everyone else and have nothing to show for it. No one on gods green earth can look at 6.1 and say "oh they do care" because that is not ccaring. That is copying and pasting BADLY from other races models.

I love my hroth. I pay my sub. I feel like I am not asking for the moon to get the same access to new things as all the other races. I want every single new hat or any headpiece to work on hrothgar the day its added. I want any new nongenderlocked hair to work on hrothgar the day its added. Why do I have to continue wait and pray the devs will actually care THIS patch? If you add a new race to your game you shouldn't be allowed to leave said races players in the dark for 3 years saying "oh its coming its coming" WHEN?

The Ameliance reward comes with a great new hat viera and hrothgar don't get to use, 6.2(5) is going to drop a new hair option and god knows it aint gonna work on hrothgar but will MAGICALLY work on viera. Please just let me use the items I've earned in your game already I'm out of patience. I don't want to wake up at 3am anymore praying a liveletter will finally be worth my time sitting thru. I am asking every hrothgar player to stop being patient or will won't get anything else the next two years until 7.1 drops and asking players to wait TWO EXPANSIONS to enjoy their character the same way everyone else can is insane to me.

Please update hrothgar every patch. You absolutely can do it if you can update every other race with new bits and geegaws.