The absolute state of Frontlines

[Naphtha]

Don’t over exaggerates.
In 6.1 PvP, most of jobs core damage is from LB, SMN is not unique
Most jobs rely on CC chain lock for execution kill

I played only a couple of CC matches (Can't duo queue so cba), how is Phoenix there? It feels like Phoenix just exists currently with no reason to use it over Bahamut, but I'm not sure, doesn't it have a heal or something?

[Divinemights]

I played only a couple of CC matches (Can't duo queue so cba), how is Phoenix there? It feels like Phoenix just exists currently with no reason to use it over Bahamut, but I'm not sure, doesn't it have a heal or something?

Except this discussion is about Frontline and what is your purpose of mix in Crystal conflict into this?
Did you misunderstand CC used in my statement refers to crowd control?

[Naphtha]

Except this discussion is about Frontline and what is your purpose of mix in Crystal conflict into this?
Did you misunderstand CC used in my statement refers to crowd control?

Not really, I was just curious.

[Divinemights]

Not really, I was just curious.

If I play SMN I would want Everlasting Flight on my tanks and meeles to give them edge to pressure enemy summoners on the frontline
Especially my team has a good monk, the monk can kill enemy SMN very fast

[Mistress_Irika]

And yes, melee could dive without risk in 5.x because *melee were overpowered.* They had too much global DR, hence the old system being "everyone plays DRG if they want to win."

I could dive in as a melee and treat it as a blue dps in 5.x, because I have that 50-50 safety when using Bloodbath with Fetterward, WARs being the only threat if I wasnt a DRG

With the removal of those role traits it doesn't make sense to go in melee range with any class in a huge cluster since it's very easy to be bursted. I dont have faith in the Guard ability, especially since there's certain classes that can pierce right through it.

[Gserpent]

I could dive in as a melee and treat it as a blue dps in 5.x, because I have that 50-50 safety when using Bloodbath with Fetterward, WARs being the only threat if I wasnt a DRG

With the removal of those role traits it doesn't make sense to go in melee range with any class in a huge cluster since it's very easy to be bursted. I dont have faith in the Guard ability, especially since there's certain classes that can pierce right through it.

Right. If you want to play melee right now, you have to be a roamer and focus on picking at people that have overextended or look for small engagements. Melee is still very powerful, but will be more limited by its nature than ranged classes until they buff melee passive DR. MNK can still delete all casters, even the dreaded BH5 summoners, in an unbreakable 100-0 combo chain. They still have opportunities to be useful and effective.

But if people are trying to play them like 5.x melee, where melee was extremely overpowered, then yeah they're going to be disappointed and frustrated. That's just how things are. Play different classes or don't play if that's going to be a make or break thing for you.

[Blinding_Awesomeness]

Right. If you want to play melee right now, you have to be a roamer and focus on picking at people that have overextended or look for small engagements. Melee is still very powerful, but will be more limited by its nature than ranged classes until they buff melee passive DR. MNK can still delete all casters, even the dreaded BH5 summoners, in an unbreakable 100-0 combo chain. They still have opportunities to be useful and effective.

But if people are trying to play them like 5.x melee, where melee was extremely overpowered, then yeah they're going to be disappointed and frustrated. That's just how things are. Play different classes or don't play if that's going to be a make or break thing for you.

As someone who plays a lot of Frontlines exclusively as DRG since 6.1, I agree with all of this. Melees are one of the toughest classes to play in the current state of Frontlines. The adjustment for me from coming from a 5.x MCH was brutal. But after gaining experience and improving my skills, I feel they're very balanced because of the risk-reward. Their bursts and LBs can be devastating, but to be the most useful and effective, they have to risk being out of position and focused down. In other words, a glass cannon.

They remind me a lot of fighting games because you have to play smart, know the game, and look for opportunities (capitalizing off an opponent's mistake, being sensitive to when to pressure and defend, knowing the best positioning, etc). If you're expecting to be a blue DPS or looking for something easygoing but good, melee is not the class you're looking for.

[Cidel]

NGL, 1:51 of the OP's video made me laugh. imagined that scream coming from the unsuspecting SMN.

Frontlines just has too many cheese strats and comps right now that it was clear they (as always) designed PvP around the small mode and devil-may-care'd whatever happened in Frontlines without any testing. They say they're going to make adjustments for it, and I'll wait to see what exactly it entails with skepticism. Until then, we're all just going to have to live with tactical Bahamut and 'goon drops; and I hope Yoshida does too if he ever decides to venture out of CC into Frontlines if he hasn't already.

[Divinemights]

i am surprised that no one is complaining 2 monks can one shot any one in the Frontline and that target cant even reach

[Gserpent]

NGL, 1:51 of the OP's video made me laugh. imagined that scream coming from the unsuspecting SMN.

Frontlines just has too many cheese strats and comps right now that it was clear they (as always) designed PvP around the small mode and devil-may-care'd whatever happened in Frontlines without any testing. They say they're going to make adjustments for it, and I'll wait to see what exactly it entails with skepticism. Until then, we're all just going to have to live with tactical Bahamut and 'goon drops; and I hope Yoshida does too if he ever decides to venture out of CC into Frontlines if he hasn't already.

I mean, FL was a joke before, too. Melee was very overpowered and you pretty much just spammed a ton of DRGs in every team if you wanted to win a lot of games. They could toss spears at people for more damage than other melees got at the end of their 3-step combo, and it was every GCD instead of every 3rd GCD. Add the melee DR to what was basically a half-ranged class and ta-da, you have a meta monster.

We'll see this *exact same thing* happen to NIN if it gets treated like all the other melees and gets some huge DR buff. A class that's halfway to being a ranged class, but with the base HP and global DR of a "true" melee class like MNK? Yeah no shit it'll be broken. I also wouldn't put it past them to repeat the past mistake... I don't think FL really gets their biggest and best minds. And, really though, should it? If you try to get people to take it seriously, you get no end of "lol idc it's pvp" type responses and people act like you grew a third ear for thinking that everyone should be playing to win in the team game. Personally, I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to waste valuable work hours on it when over 80% of people participating in it aren't even competent enough to have a valid opinion on the state of it as it is.

Hell, people used to whine that ranged were OP in 5.x FL, when the exact opposite was true. People don't put effort into learning how to properly do anything, SE doesn't even pretend to try and teach them or provide effective tools for teaching, and most people go in and die a few times and decide "I played okay, those things that killed me are OP and need nerfed!"

i am surprised that no one is complaining 2 monks can one shot any one in the Frontline and that target cant even reach

MNK being able to instagib casters and ranged (and even tanks if they can guarantee a follow-up GCD before they can heal - you just delay the stun until after the ult instead of before and it works most of the time since Purify takes too long to trigger) is a *huge* balance problem in CC. I'm actually surprised we don't see more bitching about that here... maybe other DCs don't have a lot of good MNK mains? It's not surprising that it would exist in FL as well. But MNK is kind of garbage outside of that one trick they can do... I'd rather just put a pair of WHMs together, two lasers into two miserys will gib just about anything, and being able to chain two sheeps back to back is pretty strong. Or, as the video shows... two snipes landing at the same time is also pretty effective :P