The absolute state of Frontlines

[Naphtha]

Do you even know how debuff works?
All meeles and tanks takes 50% less damage and 20% damage increase to all meeles in frontline (the percentage is also adjustable)
It has been in Frontline between 4.5 to 6.1 and I yet to see any range job is so called "unplayble"
This is a fair treatment to take away range advantage in PvP

Yes? I'm saying that 5.x suffered greatly from Dragoons who benefited from the DR/buff that were handed to melee. I don't think this current PvP would work with extreme percentages like 50% dmg reduction for tanks, considering the damage numbers they are capable of dishing.

What worked for 5.x PvP isn't necessarily going to work for this meta without some careful tweaking, I'm all for something to nerf the current emphasis on ranged jobs, but I can't help but think it'll probably swing the other way around with melees dominating due to over-the-top buffs/debuffs.

Honestly, imo, you only need to give melee dps/tanks a slight DR buff and that would allow them to actually play the gamemode again without having to play around stragglers or be forced to play NIN spamming AoE poke and fishing for an execute.

Edit for clarity: I know you said percentages are adjustable, my whole point is that the dev team could possibly botch the adjustment and instead of fixing the problem, they just swap it out for another problem that is just as bad.

[Guesswhat]

LOL that vid @OP. Almost died laughing.
Anyone and their dog's grandma can see that FL is a broken SMN mess atm. Why would anyone argue against that?
As I understand it, SE has acknowledged that FL is not balanced atm. From experience, this doesn't actually mean much; they haven't really balanced things around PvP with FL primarily in mind since, I dunno, Secure? Slaughter?

How to fix things is up to SE, but diminishing returns on CC, some sort of damage control on AOE (get a bahamut buff or similar when hit).
The damage reduction is already in place for melee clases, but against the massive AOE bursts it means nothing.

And, no, you can't be prepared for it all the time. The LBs activates too fast. Of course, you can play smart and all, but it really boils down to being overly cautious more often than not. Which is boring.

[Naphtha]

LOL that vid @OP. Almost died laughing.
Anyone and their dog's grandma can see that FL is a broken SMN mess atm. Why would anyone argue against that?
As I understand it, SE has acknowledged that FL is not balanced atm. From experience, this doesn't actually mean much; they haven't really balanced things around PvP with FL primarily in mind since, I dunno, Secure? Slaughter?

How to fix things is up to SE, but diminishing returns on CC, some sort of damage control on AOE (get a bahamut buff or similar when hit).
The damage reduction is already in place for melee clases, but against the massive AOE bursts it means nothing.

And, no, you can't be prepared for it all the time. The LBs activates too fast. Of course, you can play smart and all, but it really boils down to being overly cautious more often than not. Which is boring.

Cannot agree more with this post, and yeah they said they are only balancing for CC/Feast so FL is really not that important to them, they seem to be changing that stance which is pretty great since I truly believe FL can be a fantastic game mode to mess around in.

Also glad you enjoyed the video, had a lot of fun making it tbh.

[Lustre]

Imagine balancing the entire of pvp around 5v5 when 24v24v24 exists. How something like that even happened is baffling to me. The longer you think about it, the less sense it makes.

[Naphtha]

Imagine balancing the entire of pvp around 5v5 when 24v24v24 exists. How something like that even happened is baffling to me. The longer you think about it, the less sense it makes.

Most MMOs do this in an attempt to appeal to hardcore PvPers and try to establish a 'competitive PvP' scene. WoW is a pretty popular example with how it is balanced around Arena with BGs suffering for it, same as what is happening here.

Honestly, they should just follow in GW2's example and balance each mode separately, Conquest and WvW (World vs World) adjust your skills as you enter, so if something is underperforming in Conquest but overperforming in WvW, it gets ironed out to be a bit more manageable, not saying GW2's balancing is perfect, but it's definitely better than what we currently have.

Then again, the devs mentioned separate balancing or something of the sort in one of the last patch notes, it could be a sign of good things to come, but who knows.

Additional point: I think the current balancing could work if they returned Frontlines to 8v8v8, but I can't really be sure.

[Gserpent]

Tank DR probably ought to be bumped to 30% or even 35%. Melee classes generally have pretty strong defensive tools (often better than tanks'), so I'm not sure they necessarily need more than their existing 20% or whatever. Just slowing down LB charge times across the board and maybe implementing damage fall-off for AOE effects in FL should probably do a lot of good.

[Gserpent]

LOL that vid @OP. Almost died laughing.
Anyone and their dog's grandma can see that FL is a broken SMN mess atm. Why would anyone argue against that?
As I understand it, SE has acknowledged that FL is not balanced atm. From experience, this doesn't actually mean much; they haven't really balanced things around PvP with FL primarily in mind since, I dunno, Secure? Slaughter?

How to fix things is up to SE, but diminishing returns on CC, some sort of damage control on AOE (get a bahamut buff or similar when hit).
The damage reduction is already in place for melee clases, but against the massive AOE bursts it means nothing.

And, no, you can't be prepared for it all the time. The LBs activates too fast. Of course, you can play smart and all, but it really boils down to being overly cautious more often than not. Which is boring.

CC doesn't need diminishing returns. If Purify works as it's supposed to and Resilience actually triggers instantly like it should, that's already all the coverage you need. Yeah, you could still get sheeped and killed during the sheep... but why are you diving the enemy team if there's a WHM hiding in a corner somewhere?

It's not like CC spamming wasn't a thing in the old system. It was a common way to die if you were being dumb and overextending or not paying attention to enemy positioning.

[Asuka-Hykiri]

I didn't change the math. I pointed out that the 28800 you were fixating on was due to the SMN's defense buff. An LB5 snipe with 20% DR is 43.2k damage, which puts them into death range of even a standard drill (51.2k total damage.)

You tried to be cute with the 28800 but forgot (or weren't aware) that SMN has a 20% DR buff they can give themselves or others. I'm simply correcting you on that. Why are you so mad?

You're not wrong, but the likely reason it did 20% less damage is because the SMN had battle high, that also increases defense on SMN by 20% lol

REF: https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../5/#anchor_003

Funny how he's telling you that you don't know how damage calculation works, when he clearly doesn't understand how damage calculation works EVEN WITH his 'visual information' heh

[Naphtha]

Right back at you buddy lol learn what 20% of the marksman spite damage is, then get back to me

Or go back to trolling on roblox of something and let the grown ups play.

I think I'd rather swallow a box of nails than 'get back' to you with anything if you think you have an argument here, but maybe open that link of yours and read through it again, just an idea.

[Asuka-Hykiri]

Oh sorry, my mistake, it isn't during battle high...

ITS ALL THE TIME

so yeah, 28,800 is still correct

With Battle High 5, thats still 54000 x 0.8 to give 43,200 dmg of the 49,500 HP

With a follow up drill for 10,000 x 0.8 to give 8,000 dmg of their remaining HP

So yeah, the origional comment about a BH5 MCH being able to 2 shot a SMN still isn't wrong