Page 6 of 96 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 16 56 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 957
  1. #51
    Player
    LordGiggles's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    47
    Character
    Serena Avleach
    World
    Sephirot
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post

    More interesting to me though, was the mention Omega made of the Ancients' civilization being a Stage IV civilization. If you're unaware of the Kardashev Scale, then I suggest looking into it. Stage 4 is actually a further step added to the theory later by someone else. The scale itself is about potential energy consumption/usage that a civilization is capable of.

    Stage 1 is a civilization a bit above modern day society in terms of power it can consume when compared to the Sun's power output.

    Stage 2 is a civilization that can use all of the energy the sun radiates.

    Stage 3 is a civilization that can use all of the energy an entire galaxy is comprised of.

    The extra stages, Stage IV is a civilization that can use all of the energy in the universe. Stage V is all energy in multiple universes.
    I've got to assume they weren't using this scale, and just said something they thought sounded cool and sciencey, because it just doesn't make sense given the story. There's no reason at all they'd need to sacrifice anything to create zodiark if they could harness that much energy, and meteion would be a pretty pathetic apocalypse considering we can handle her just fine.

    I don't see much reason to put the ancients higher than stage 2, though it is hard to judge when they don't really rely on technology that much.
    (4)

  2. #52
    Player EaraGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ul’dah
    Posts
    822
    Character
    Eara Grace
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by KageTokage View Post
    I'm...confused as to who/what you're referring to by that.

    If it was in reference to that third round of sacrifices to be offered to Zodiark, we have virtually no context behind what they were and one has to remember that the Sundering affected all life negatively. Even if she truly had done it with the intent of protecting lives as opposed to subjecting mankind to her own trial, she irreparably damaged every being upon Etheriys in the process, though the Ancients seem to have gotten the worst of it due to being considerably denser in aether then any of their creations.
    To an Ancient they are damaged, but is that an objective view of the Sundered? Emet saw fit to judge the Sundered by the aetheric strength of their souls, but should we? The Sundered, by virtue of their imperfections, are faced with challenges that the ancients did not face, and as a result are more resilient and have a greater of respect for life and death. It's not clear cut to me.
    (10)

  3. #53
    Player
    Havenchild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    990
    Character
    Avalen Koma
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rulakir View Post
    That's how it's always been. People know going in that they'll be playing through a story on rails, FFXIV has never offered much in the way of choice, but it allows the individual player some measure of agency even if it amounts to nothing.

    Perhaps if this were applied consistently it'd be less obvious, but it's particularly egregious when it comes to certain characters you're simply not allowed to like or dislike. The one exception I can think of is Zenos at the end of 4.0. I could choose to accept him, which is only time I remember being given a non-aggressive response to an antagonist. SB in general I recall as offering much more in the way of diverse dialog options, it's gotten increasingly worse to abysmal in EW to where I feel like it's back to ARR levels with my character just nodding in agreement to everything. It's dull.



    I'd argue it's less dissenters than those who'd like to maintain the illusion of having some agency in their character. Aside from dialog options, EW has also imposed a personality upon my WoL now. Suddenly I'm a traveler who's interested in fighting ever challenging foes. Since when? It honestly feels like I'm just playing Yoshi-P's interpretation of the WoL at this point and it sucks. There's so much we won't ever know about Azem because they say they don't want to tread on 'headcanon' and yet they consistently trample over what little headcanon we're allowed to have even as the WoL. I think if I'm just going to be RPing as an already developed character there's no real point in having dialog options at all. Three different ways of saying the same thing is what's pointless. It's not even an illusion of choice at that point, it's just insulting. :P
    I'll agree that if you are in a position where you do disagree with something, you aren't presented enough options or dialog for that matter to support it, which as I mentioned is likely an unironic shortcoming.
    But no matter how immersed you could hope to be, to acknowledge the game is on rails but disagree when the identity of something is placed on you seems like contradicting opinions no?
    (8)

  4. #54
    Player
    Rulakir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    977
    Character
    Sajah Lane
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Havenchild View Post
    But no matter how immersed you could hope to be, to acknowledge the game is on rails but disagree when the identity of something is placed on you seems like contradicting opinions no?
    Going back to SB, of course I'm going to have to help Ala Mhigo, but being ornery every step of the way is exactly how I felt about it and the option to respond that way was both fun and cathartic. I certainly would have enjoyed it a lot less if my WoL were presented as loving every moment of it.

    EW pushed my boundaries. Too much hard coding an identity for the WoL (or Azem, by extension) is not going to work for me, not at this stage in the game. It was a significant contributor to my not liking EW as there was never any point where I could express not being cool with what was happening and instead watching my character behave in ways contrary to how I was thinking and feeling during several key moments. I think that's the main factor for me. This side of the screen I'm angry or sad while my WoL is offered 3 different options to express how happy they are. I'd never felt so disconnected and that's saying a lot after ARR.
    (7)

  5. #55
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,092
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by EaraGrace View Post
    To an Ancient they are damaged, but is that an objective view of the Sundered? Emet saw fit to judge the Sundered by the aetheric strength of their souls, but should we? The Sundered, by virtue of their imperfections, are faced with challenges that the ancients did not face, and as a result are more resilient and have a greater of respect for life and death. It's not clear cut to me.
    Unsundered or otherwise, mankind was always flawed in their own ways, though considering it from a strictly physical standpoint, they were damaged, living fleeting lives that are oft cut short by disease, famine, and myriad other factors that either didn't exist or didn't affect them originally.

    The flaws the unsundered possessed are still present in the sundered as well, only now the lack of respect for life and death extends to their fellow man as well.

    Perhaps they weren't objectively better, but it's hard for me to see them as not being better overall.
    (10)

  6. #56
    Player
    redheadturk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    526
    Character
    Nabriales Majestic
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by KageTokage View Post
    Unsundered or otherwise, mankind was always flawed in their own ways, though considering it from a strictly physical standpoint, they were damaged, living fleeting lives that are oft cut short by disease, famine, and myriad other factors that either didn't exist or didn't affect them originally.

    The flaws the unsundered possessed are still present in the sundered as well, only now the lack of respect for life and death extends to their fellow man as well.

    Perhaps they weren't objectively better, but it's hard for me to see them as not being better overall.
    IMHO, the Ancients were objectively better, I mean, the Ancients did not have starvation, slavery, homelessness, disease was a very rare occurrence. Those are all goals I have for our own society right here on Earth.
    (14)

  7. #57
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
    Posts
    2,889
    Character
    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by redheadturk View Post
    IMHO, the Ancients were objectively better, I mean, the Ancients did not have starvation, slavery, homelessness, disease was a very rare occurrence. Those are all goals I have for our own society right here on Earth.
    I'm not sure how much of that you can actually say. We only hung around basically the Ancient equivalents of the DC beltway and... like, MIT, I guess, so it's hard to say if there actually were no social ills like starvation or homelessness, or if there were but we just never saw them. And as for the more tangible ills, keep in mind that some of these were because they literally hadn't yet been invented. And the Ancients were working on inventing things like 'diseases', 'apex predators', and 'birds that are on fire literally their entire life'. I know that last part's not super relevant, but I do generally question the processes that went into inventing someone like that, I feel like that can't have been perfectly ethical.

    But also keep in mind the situation we know brought about the Sundering: that this society was proving not to be perfect, and that people were willing to throw away the principles that made this world so good, potentially threatening to trash the whole thing. In a completely understandable state, of course--I can't imagine the literal apocalypse would lead to the most rational decisions in the world--but the fact remains that the End of Days destroyed that perfection, if it ever existed in the first place.
    (14)
    Last edited by Cleretic; 06-09-2022 at 08:02 PM.

  8. #58
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,882
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    The Amaurotians are also objectively all dead, which strikes me as objectively worse than what we have now. Hence Omega's post-mortem analysis.
    (4)

  9. #59
    Player
    redheadturk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    526
    Character
    Nabriales Majestic
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    The Amaurotians are also objectively all dead, which strikes me as objectively worse than what we have now. Hence Omega's post-mortem analysis.
    And whose fault is that? Oh yeah, Venat's, that's right.
    (11)

  10. #60
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,092
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    The Amaurotians are also objectively all dead, which strikes me as objectively worse than what we have now. Hence Omega's post-mortem analysis.
    They're dead because of the Sundering which is why the subject came up in the first place.

    It is a good point that our perspective of the Ancient world is really too narrow to make any absolute judgments on how "perfect" it truly was, though.
    (14)
    Last edited by KageTokage; 06-09-2022 at 09:26 PM.

Page 6 of 96 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 16 56 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread