Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

[KariTheFox]

What makes the difference between a computer program and a person, though?

That's a pretty philosophical question, and maybe some computer programs could theoretically qualify. But we know that primals are essentially just arcane entities that are running on the input (beliefs and wishes) of those who summoned them.

And actually, now that I think about it. It's not like deleting a computer program - it's more like ending the process of a running program. You can still summon the same primal again, after all.

[redheadturk]

That's a pretty philosophical question, and maybe some computer programs could theoretically qualify. But we know that primals are essentially just arcane entities that are running on the input (beliefs and wishes) of those who summoned them.

And actually, now that I think about it. It's not like deleting a computer program - it's more like ending the process of a running program. You can still summon the same primal again, after all.

Again, Ramuh recalls events that happened between summonings. I suspect they are more like fae [aka amalgamations of bits of souls that have taken another form, in this case with crystals and faith] than actual spontaneously occurring arcane entities.

[Theodric]

As always, I would expect those who - by their own admission - want to champion the 'mommy goddess with a soft voice' to say and do whatever it takes in order to try and push her as 'correct'.

At this point, I'm not even sure what the point of these circular arguments even is. Nothing being discussed is anything that can't be resolved with a simple 'agree to disagree'. It's just amusing that the same posters who screeched for years about the Ascians and the Garleans because of 'genocide' cannot handle a light bit of pushback and people saying they disagree and disapprove of Venat when...she engages in genocide and turns out to be directly or indirectly responsible for the majority of horrific suffering present in the setting itself.

[KizuyaKatogami]

What are you talking about? Eden was the result of one guy dying. Surely if some sundered could figure out how to make the life energy of one ancient and some primals into an effective terraforming device, the ancients could have too.

Sure, maybe it would have taken longer than the sacrifice a large number of thier population to instantly restore the ecosystem, but we've confirmed it'd work.

Heck, maybe "terraforming with primals" was the original Azem's mysterious third option.

Eden’s transformation is what contributed to the flood of light maam. Aka the thing that wiped out nearly the entire world. Also…primals don’t contain a will or emotion? That’s very interesting to me because based on their dialogue they seem to possess a LOT of emotion, and i don’t think they consented either. Iirc you were all very against the ancients using any creations for their benefit and saw it as hubris, with one of you even saying that the eden primals….lol, “consented.” Sorry had to stifle a laugh there. But yeah to me they very much have a will and emotions based on their dialogue. At least moreso than egi’s or nixies.

[Brinne]

Clearly, we don't see the Eden Primals as alive, so killing them is not really murder.

Wait, no, that's nonsense. We've clearly seen that you can have conversations with Primals, even philosophical discussions, and they demonstrate a will to live and resistance to being killed, so...

Wait, I'm confused again.

[Lauront]

It's the difference between killing a person and deleting a computer program.

And now we're at step one again, asserting it involved persons.

What are you talking about? Eden was the result of one guy dying. Surely if some sundered could figure out how to make the life energy of one ancient and some primals into an effective terraforming device, the ancients could have too.

Sure, maybe it would have taken longer than the sacrifice a large number of thier population to instantly restore the ecosystem, but we've confirmed it'd work.

Heck, maybe "terraforming with primals" was the original Azem's mysterious third option.

Are you just back to musing of "omg why didn't you think of this dumb dumbs"? To which one could add: why didn't Venat propose it, in that case? There are likely obvious reasons as to why this would not work, such as a planet being drenched in dynamis being harmed and atrophied by it in ways light, which solely causes aetheric stagnation but otherwise keeps the aether intact, would not be.

[redheadturk]

I have my suspicions about the primals in the game as to how much of a true "will" they actually have considering Ramuh remembers events between summonings even if he was still in the Sea at the time the events happened.

[Rulakir]

At this point, I'm not even sure what the point of these circular arguments even is.

There is none, especially when the opposition is arguing headcanon loosely based around ambiguously described events and misconstrued dialog. More power to those who have the patience to tackle someone's personal fan fiction. The amusing part is if they have to make up so much in their minds for the story and characters to work it just further goes to show how bad EW was.

[Theodric]

There is none, especially when the opposition is arguing headcanon loosely based around ambiguously described events and misconstrued dialog. More power to those who have the patience to tackle someone's personal fan fiction. The amusing part is if they have to make up so much in their minds for the story and characters to work it just further goes to show how bad EW was.

Yep. Much like the false presentation of the 'trolley problem' when that comparison only works for a sudden, unexpected event and not when some nutty, delusional individual in the form of Venat decides to stand by and allow an apocalyptic event to occur with no forewarning only to then murder the survivors for not 'moving on'.

I don’t have to handwave whole cutscenes to justify my perspective at the very least.

You're well aware that it is a stylistic and false retelling of established events, I hope...?

[tokinokanatae]

Primals can converse with us, with one another—if we’re talking about Eden, they can also willingly fuse with one another to create entirely new entities beyond what we summon. Seems to me like “computer program” is just a fancy way of justifying killing then for our own benefit.