Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

[Brightamethyst]

Is the end the Plenty faced really a special kind of terrible compared to the first two Dead Ends? Is monstrosities pleading with survivors for death to end their suffering and people being blown to bits by bombs somehow better than a creature that offers peaceful death when requested?

Yes.

There's a big difference between a terminal cancer patient wanting to end the pain and a someone contemplating suicide simply because he's bored with life.

[IkaraGreydancer]

And how did they "eliminate sorrow?" Hive mind. I don't believe joy loses its savor without sorrow, though sorrow is a fact of life regardless. Also, I trust Meiteion's word about as much as I trust Varis'. Aka, not a whit.

Why not trust her word? She isn't evil like Varis. She was also far more close to these folks than any of us with an ability to connect and feel others like no one else

[jameseoakes]

Why not trust her word? She isn't evil like Varis. She was also far more close to these folks than any of us with an ability to connect and feel others like no one else

Venat was pure evil and a monster, she's not worthy of any trust

[Rangiswimming]

It was really fun! Especially because you could say none of them were justified. Good succinct and a firm rebuke to the actions of those three.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

Considering we had ample opportunities and reason to tell Venat right to her prick face that she's a lunatic who commited an unforgivable act based on her own irrational fears, i'd say this is way too little way too late. But i suppose you gotta take what you can get.

[KageTokage]

I don't think there was any indication that Ancients were trying to "eliminate sorrow" in the manner that the people of the Plenty were, especially not when the very creation magic around which their society revolved was the source of many problems and as long it continued to be used they would inevitably invite strife into their lives in ways both big and small.

That might have changed in the aftermath of the Final Days, but we'll never know because they were cut off before they could even start with the debatably unnecessary sacrifices. And no, I don't take the testimony of those two Ancients Venat speaks to as indicative of the whole. There were likely many who just wanted to spare the souls of their loved ones from languishing as part of Zodiark for eternity.

[thegreatonemal]

I don't think there was any indication that Ancients were trying to "eliminate sorrow" in the manner that the people of the Plenty were, especially not when the very creation magic around which their society revolved was the source of many problems and as long it continued to be used they would inevitably invite strife into their lives in ways both big and small.

That might have changed in the aftermath of the Final Days, but we'll never know because they were cut off before they could even start with the debatably unnecessary sacrifices. And no, I don't take the testimony of those two Ancients Venat speaks to as indicative of the whole. There were likely many who just wanted to spare the souls of their loved ones from languishing as part of Zodiark for eternity.

They willingly sacrificed themselves. Who said they wanted to return? Who even suggested it in the first place?

[Iscah]

I feel like the core problem is that the game tried to present it as some kind of universal truth, rather than one person's misguided opinion, that suffering is necessary or people will get bored and want to end it all – making Venat's actions a heavy-hearted realisation of this inescapable fact and the necessity of carrying it out.

It's just that the whole premise seems misguided at a writer's level, and if you're not on board with that philosophical proposal (I am not) then it reframes the necessity of Venat's actions, and the result is the dissonance between her noble portrayal and what she actually did.

[Iscah]

They willingly sacrificed themselves. Who said they wanted to return? Who even suggested it in the first place?

Indeed – and it's only Endwalker that frames them as "eternally trapped and conscious within Zodiark" and in need of being let out. When we were debating Shadowbringers I think everyone, or at least the majority, were under the impression that the sacrificed souls were essentially dead (whether absorbed into Zodiark or gone to the aetherial sea) and Emet's desire to resurrect them could never actually be fulfilled because there was nothing left of them to revive.

[Brightamethyst]

Indeed – and it's only Endwalker that frames them as "eternally trapped and conscious within Zodiark" and in need of being let out. When we were debating Shadowbringers I think everyone, or at least the majority, were under the impression that the sacrificed souls were essentially dead (whether absorbed into Zodiark or gone to the aetherial sea) and Emet's desire to resurrect them could never actually be fulfilled because there was nothing left of them to revive.

Yeah. That was very much new information that completely reframed the Ascian's motivations.