Thread: Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

*sigh* Eara, you're going to have to accept that not everybody views these hypothetical concepts the same way. I say this because, your question literally makes no sense to me.

What will I live for? Whatever the hell I want. Did I read 10,000 books today? Well, why not try to read 10,001 tomorrow? Did I make my best work of art ever? Why not try to top myself tomorrow, then?

"But what if you run out of books?"

Why would I? This is a perfect heaven, right? So why can't my perfect heaven have infinite books?

"But what if you can't make better art than you did before, because it's 'perfect'?"

Then it'd be fun to compare my "perfect" art to someone else's "perfect" art and see what we both value as perfection. But before that, why wouldn't I be able to make it better? This is a perfect heaven right? Why can't my art style always improve in my perfect heaven, then?

Gentle Amaurotine: But even inspiration has its limits. For all the wonders we have wrought, I do wonder if there will come a time when we have fully explored the potential of our powers─when there is truly nothing left unmade, and only iteration and imitation and stagnation remain...

To make sure I understand, what you suggest is in a western conception of heaven there's always something more which in turn grants your life meaning. Something else to replace and fill what was lost or old. And that's exactly the problem, the meaning is derived by the existence of what is next. But that only works because it is, by definition, a place without limitation, a place without cause or effect, a place where meaning is whatever you wish it to be. The world we inhabit, the world that Etheiry's exists in, is none of those things. It is finite, it is limited. The closest thing to infinity that exists is the universe, and even then it's destined to entropy. In a western conception of heaven you live for the next new thing that will hypothetically exist. That doesn't work if your "perfection" is instead a physical place in this existence.

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

That's the problem with this argument about "perfection". The word means nothing outside of speculation and concept. As for me, I don't accept "perfection" as an unchanging end state of being. Because no one knows what "perfection" even looks like, that means it can also be conceived a continuous cycle of being with infinite growth.

And thus leads to the problem. I believe the concept of perfection that Ancients and the Plenty were working off must be physical, else it is purely a hypothetical and not a description of their actual state like they said it was. They couldn't "perfect" their world if they had opposing hypothetical concepts of perfection could they? The "continuous cycle of being with infinite growth" doesn't work when that growth is limited by physical constraints.

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Yes, because the story told them to choose it. Again, I reject this notion that, because the story did it, this was the only option. Sir chose to give up and die because it could not find any further strong opponents to fight (which the Omega dungeon makes superfluous, but I digress).

Also, the "hive mind" argument is begging the question. We see that Hermes was able to program an Entelechy to suspend its free will. If Meteion was the only one of her kind, it seems no less possible to do it.

The Meteion we know had her will supplanted by another being with free will, just like the Omicron and apparently in some languages like the Plenty. The concept remains sound. Someone had to have a will.

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

This argument makes no sense when regulating emotions and feelings is literally the point of Endwalker. Being able to put ones feelings in perspective, to drive out negative thoughts and despair, is literally what "Forging Ahead" means within the context of the story.

That is not what Forging Ahead means. It doesn't mean driving out negative thoughts but seeing past them, and recognizing they will always be there. Hydaelyn literally says

Darkness abideth within every living being, and can never be cast out.

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Hell, even Emet-Selch himself states that Meteion's failure was due to the fallacious reasoning that Hermes placed in her programming.

Emet Selch was wrong on that criticism, a fact that Hermes pointed out. You can't reject the truth just because you dislike it. Meteions flaw was once again that she couldn't deliver that answer without concluding that death is a mercy. Everything before that was a tragedy of circumstance.

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Hell, your argument is further invalidated by the fact that G'raha Tia is able to literally help the Omicron overcome their despair with a logical argument. G'raha didn't pat Sir on the back and say, "There there. Just feel better", he offered a logical position which posited a reason to live, and Sir accepted it. So no, I'm not hearing any "But Dynamis requires emotion, so there's no way to deal with it."

G'raha: So I urge you to not give up. Heed your heart's desire, and hope that the future you long for shall be realized.

What a logical argument.

Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

If you don't want to discuss it, then don't. But as long as you put forth arguments I vehemently disagree with, I'm going to respond.

If you don't want to discuss, then don't reply.

I guess the discussion will continue then.