6.15 patch, still no Kaiten revert

[CelestiCer]

Why is it that everyone who says this either never touches savage, or touches it and plays their class like absolute trash

I'm fairly sure I done an unhealthy amount of Forum reading by now, BUT the amount of stupid takes from Non-Samurai mains I read...

• Kaiten was a button you press everytime
• Kaiten was not interactive
• Kaiten did nothing for Kenki Management
• Kaiten required no decision making
• Kaiten was braindead anyways
• Kaiten affected Damage Variance
• Kaiten removal is fun and gives depth

I specially like the damage variance one, " Mahh-Moist-Mahogany. I remain unconvinced of Kaiten removals necessity to tackle DPS fluctuations.

The " is this your 1st time? " meme's cause it happens to SAM is also old and really doesn't add anything to the discussions. And no, for some of us it's not cause we came from games and MMO's where this already happened thinking FFXIV might be different.

You'd think it stops there, sometimes takes from players who never touched Savage... but it gets worse better when you meet players attempting to weigh in their sufferings and make a flaccid comparison contest.

Hottake: It's not that we don't care? but,

• We're Samurai's, possibly Samurai mains
• In the DPS section in Samurai threads
• Talking about Samurai changes
• That affects, you guessed it, Samurai

SMN rework sucks? go to the SMN threads.
MCH has no DPS well guess what thread you can make and go to?
Guess where I can go vent SAM grievances? Correct, not in the Healer role section no I stay here, Healers you go there.

It's not rocket science...

[darkdyllon]

That's why my Initial Idea was to keep Kaiten but make it the next attack Direct Hit, so you guarantee Direct Crit Midare and Ogi.. I'd be more okay with that but in truth the Intolerance of the Community and unwillingness to listen outside of the Samurai playing folks is staggering, ppl immediatly get fed up when I only bring up that I want Kaiten back! It's like you have depression and everyone you wanna talk to about it acts like: "NO! DO NOT TALK TO ME"

They're Killing the Conversation and I think that's the main issue of the majority of this Community is that they living in that world where Final Fantasy XIV is the Best MMO and is always in the best state of the game because Yoshi-P are Perfect and the Devs can't do wrong, which is simply not true: They are Human, They make mistakes (a lot of mistakes!) but usually they listen to feedback.. we Kaiten Removal Opposers though got massively upset understandably so since they removed a core part of the Samurai's Kit hell! I saw a load of alternate change suggestion that even accounted the lie of Button Bloat in Samurai! I feel like I studied Samurai over the Kaiten Removal thoroughly and thus determine why Kaiten has to return (mainly because of the entire Kenki Integrity) while getting sidetracked pretty hard, I'll conclude with this:

listen... The Kaiten Removal is Bad
feel... The draining Shinten Spam
think... About The Importance of Kenki

#BringBackKaiten

i can agree to Kaiten simply becoming an "next attack is an direct hit" would also remove their issue with difficulity on balancing (which was another excuse i've seen floating around since Yoshi did say that balancing Samurai was difficult because of Kaitens 50% damage increase in Kaiten and the critical hit)
button bloat honestly, I play controller and SAM was my 2nd job for content, if i didn't want to tank, there was no button bloat and as many have said, there are plenty of other candidates to fix that specific issue.
What i generally hate now that i main Red Mage, is how i can either crit for 55k on my finishers ... or hit for 23-25, maybe 30k.
i don't mind it as much, but it kinda throws me back to their "we gave midare/ogi 100% crit because of the damage variance it brought" ... other jobs have this exact same thing going on, yet nothing happens?

i always hated the aspect of "FF14 is perfect" or "yoshi-P is the messiah of the gaming industry" or "the team can't do no wrong" as you mentioned, they are human and they are actually really prone to messing things up or not even communicate to us that they are aware and are gonna fix it.
look at Machinist, they've been screwed for years now, only thing they keep doing is "potency buffs"
as i've stated, an PTS for job balancing would really fix a lot of these issues.

[Ruminous]

Why is it that everyone who says this either never touches savage, or touches it and plays their class like absolute trash

It's easy to say because on paper if you know your rotation you can plan it to the second. You know, kind of ignores the fact that there's a fight going on and the boss is doing things. But if we go by that logic, then why would jobs have any differences in how they're played, as one poster stated above? 'cuz variety sure is nice! But yeah, it's not as cut and dry as "memorize rotation, do big numbers". People need to stop thinking that.

Oh, and before I forget the tax: Samurai still boring, and for the love of god devs, at least talk about your plans for samurai. We've been waiting for a couple months now with nary a peep about what they want to do with it or if this half-assed state is their final goal. I sure hope it isn't, but at least it'd be nice to know if I can start throwing out striking stuff I've collected over the years.

[darkdyllon]

That really is the major design problem behind most jobs now, everything follows a very strict rotation without deviation. Once an encounter is learned, even savage and ultimate, it no longer poses any difficulty. It is all patterns to be memorized and it is why FFXIV has a huge stagnation issue. None that has cleared older content wants to go back and do it again because it's just playing a pattern they have already memorized.

that's what i actually like about red mage a lot.
sure it still has it's rotation, every job has it and there will always be an optimal method to play, you literally can never eliminate this.
but with Red Mage you can choose to delay your melee combo into finisher for when you need to move more.
You can actually make an active decision like "i need to move in around 20 seconds, i won't overcap on my mana gauges, so i'll pool it for now so i can keep uptime during the mechanic" Pinax in P4S is an perfect example, where i can start my melee combo when we relocate the boss and i can move around freely when we gotta split for poison. (please Yoshi, don't ruin red mage)

it would be nice to get a return to how omega 7 savage was designed, the fight had 2 basic starts, where it was either biblios or dadaluma, then the other would be stored to the end of the fight and you would get 2 more mechanics that were in an random order afterwards.
that was nice honestly, the problem is that each fight has an timeline stored with the server, so each variation is limited.

[MellowMink]

Adding my name into the list of people that Square Enix seems to be ignoring on this topic, or at least not prioritizing, but I just went back to Samurai on controller again; I have a full setup visible on one page and almost never needing to tab, and there’s a perfect and easily reachable blank spot where Kaiten would go.