Thread: 6.15 patch, still no Kaiten revert

Originally Posted by darkdyllon

the problem would be that if Kaiten returns with 6.1 changes (auto crit etc) that Kaiten would either still make Iaitsu hit like a wet noodle or it would absolutely destroy balance because of it.
so if they revert straight back to 6.08 and work from there, make some changes internally, remove Kaiten there BUT start having alternatives to Kaiten (that's the main issue people are having, Kaiten brought gauge management, if just Shinten was removed the same issue would surface, Kaiten was removed and nothing was added in it's place)

That's why my Initial Idea was to keep Kaiten but make it the next attack Direct Hit, so you guarantee Direct Crit Midare and Ogi.. I'd be more okay with that but in truth the Intolerance of the Community and unwillingness to listen outside of the Samurai playing folks is staggering, ppl immediatly get fed up when I only bring up that I want Kaiten back! It's like you have depression and everyone you wanna talk to about it acts like: "NO! DO NOT TALK TO ME"

They're Killing the Conversation and I think that's the main issue of the majority of this Community is that they living in that world where Final Fantasy XIV is the Best MMO and is always in the best state of the game because Yoshi-P are Perfect and the Devs can't do wrong, which is simply not true: They are Human, They make mistakes (a lot of mistakes!) but usually they listen to feedback.. we Kaiten Removal Opposers though got massively upset understandably so since they removed a core part of the Samurai's Kit hell! I saw a load of alternate change suggestion that even accounted the lie of Button Bloat in Samurai! I feel like I studied Samurai over the Kaiten Removal thoroughly and thus determine why Kaiten has to return (mainly because of the entire Kenki Integrity) while getting sidetracked pretty hard, I'll conclude with this:

listen... The Kaiten Removal is Bad
feel... The draining Shinten Spam
think... About The Importance of Kenki

#BringBackKaiten

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

That's why my Initial Idea was to keep Kaiten but make it the next attack Direct Hit, so you guarantee Direct Crit Midare and Ogi.. I'd be more okay with that but in truth the Intolerance of the Community and unwillingness to listen outside of the Samurai playing folks is staggering, ppl immediatly get fed up when I only bring up that I want Kaiten back! It's like you have depression and everyone you wanna talk to about it acts like: "NO! DO NOT TALK TO ME"

They're Killing the Conversation and I think that's the main issue of the majority of this Community is that they living in that world where Final Fantasy XIV is the Best MMO and is always in the best state of the game because Yoshi-P are Perfect and the Devs can't do wrong, which is simply not true: They are Human, They make mistakes (a lot of mistakes!) but usually they listen to feedback.. we Kaiten Removal Opposers though got massively upset understandably so since they removed a core part of the Samurai's Kit hell! I saw a load of alternate change suggestion that even accounted the lie of Button Bloat in Samurai! I feel like I studied Samurai over the Kaiten Removal thoroughly and thus determine why Kaiten has to return (mainly because of the entire Kenki Integrity) while getting sidetracked pretty hard, I'll conclude with this:

listen... The Kaiten Removal is Bad
feel... The draining Shinten Spam
think... About The Importance of Kenki

#BringBackKaiten

i can agree to Kaiten simply becoming an "next attack is an direct hit" would also remove their issue with difficulity on balancing (which was another excuse i've seen floating around since Yoshi did say that balancing Samurai was difficult because of Kaitens 50% damage increase in Kaiten and the critical hit)
button bloat honestly, I play controller and SAM was my 2nd job for content, if i didn't want to tank, there was no button bloat and as many have said, there are plenty of other candidates to fix that specific issue.
What i generally hate now that i main Red Mage, is how i can either crit for 55k on my finishers ... or hit for 23-25, maybe 30k.
i don't mind it as much, but it kinda throws me back to their "we gave midare/ogi 100% crit because of the damage variance it brought" ... other jobs have this exact same thing going on, yet nothing happens?

i always hated the aspect of "FF14 is perfect" or "yoshi-P is the messiah of the gaming industry" or "the team can't do no wrong" as you mentioned, they are human and they are actually really prone to messing things up or not even communicate to us that they are aware and are gonna fix it.
look at Machinist, they've been screwed for years now, only thing they keep doing is "potency buffs"
as i've stated, an PTS for job balancing would really fix a lot of these issues.

Originally Posted by Stasya

No one asks just to return Kaiten, people ask for complete revert to 6.08 without bs auto crits and shinten spam.

Oi! I just want Kaiten back..
and I want the Old Tenka Goken..
and the Old Overpower..
and the Old Trick Attack..

.. you know what.. you're right kinda
It's just that I like the Enpi Changes of 6.1 ^^;

Autocrits are fucking stupid. Bring back Kaiten and the damage variance. I'd rather get unlucky than be bored.

Our MCH friend isn't a troll for explaining how a revert shouldn't be expected in a 6.1.X patch!
I do hope they do away with the crit changes as well because I'd take some variance over sanitized low crits that dont feel good to hit. Like really 40k? Even tanks crit harder than that

Originally Posted by Hezhi

Our MCH friend isn't a troll for explaining how a revert shouldn't be expected in a 6.1.X patch!
I do hope they do away with the crit changes as well because I'd take some variance over sanitized low crits that dont feel good to hit. Like really 40k? Even tanks crit harder than that

Devs can easily do this, i bet kaiten was not removed from game only disabled for players and other stuff is literally 1) change damage number 2) change "base crit chance = 1.00" to "base crit chance = 0.00" or if they have more complex programming "always crit = True" to "always crit = False".

The fact that they do pvp changes on fly (with even yoshi p getting stomped in pvp and buffing blm) proves my point that they can do that but its just "they know better".

Originally Posted by Hezhi

Our MCH friend isn't a troll for explaining how a revert shouldn't be expected in a 6.1.X patch!
I do hope they do away with the crit changes as well because I'd take some variance over sanitized low crits that dont feel good to hit. Like really 40k? Even tanks crit harder than that

At least samurai has damage... machinist has nothing but robot friend that punches darkened fires that are invulnerable because you accidently forgot to target the big burb

They're not a white knight for saying that the rework can't be easily reversed, we don't know how the dev team operates. It's as they said, conjecture.

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

They're not a white knight for saying that the rework can't be easily reversed, we don't know how the dev team operates. It's as they said, conjecture.

They easily pump balance patches in pvp revolving around either damage/healing potencies or even removing charge mechanic from spell or add/remove some other stuff like additional effects (blm 6.15 balance change). We literally see how dev team operates: yoshi p gets stomped -> patch rollout in 2-3 weeks without troubles.

Pretending that pve is any different than pvp and its super hard to do same thing is literally whitewashing devs.

Ahhh yes, with another patch comes more silence as the SAM players continue to dwindle in numbers and NIN/MNK raise. Reminder that no one asked/wanted these changes and throughout my browsing of this forum I hardly if ever seen anyone complaining about SAM. Sounds to me that the Dev team just doesn't want skilled players actually being skilled at jobs and rather at fights. I guess I will continue doing Ultimate while falling asleep at the wheel because my job is borderline unplayable at this point. But yes, please Yoshi talk to us about housing while the DPS forum in NA and JP burns to the ground. When they said they didn't want to bring back HW I never figured that meant making every class a snoozefest.