This frequency of English localization issues is unacceptable

[Fawkes]

I will have to fact-check you on whether they actually said that, it just sounds so wrong, but I guarantee you that taking the source material and warping it to such an egregious degree that this game's localizers have done is not "the only way to do things".

Arguing that is just so wrong that things like subtitled anime and fan-translations of manga/anime content wouldn't be watchable or enjoyable by foreign audiences.

[Jeeqbit]

I will have to fact-check you on whether they actually said that, it just sounds so wrong, but I guarantee you that taking the source material and warping it to such an egregious degree that this game's localizers have done is not "the only way to do things".

Watch the hour-long segment of the Las Vegas Fanfest with the new lead of localization https://www.youtube.com/live/YozopuVW8Mo?t=24529

[OgruMogru]

The only people getting *so* bent out of shape about this are pedants and the artless. Pick your poison.

[Telkira]

Then why are all of the in-game signs and even the map written in English using the Eorzean script?

Why are 95% of the songs in the game with lyrics sung in English and written by the previous English head localizer/lore guy?

Just because the game is made in Japan doesn’t mean the worldwide audience is secondary to the home audience either.

It's still done to appease a Japanese audience first and foremost. Using an obvious parody of English text for their fictional in-universe text, the use of songs with lyrics that are in English does not really change that. The game, from conception to production, is innately Japanese and designed primarily for the entertainment of a Japanese audience.

I'll ask you this.
If the revisions/deviations made by the English localizers are so good, why aren't they in the Japanese script?
Why are other languages which were translated directly from the Japanese script more well-received than when content is translated/adapted from the English script?
Why aren't Japanese users clamoring for a proper JP (re)localization of all the things that are in English text, but not in Japanese?

I can tell you this: It's not because Japanese culture is inherently different. It's because the Japanese script and text content is generally more well-liked and has less people complaining about it compared to the English one, which is probably why less people complain about the German and French scripts being so different.

It was also said somewhere that he recommended Japanese players to play the English version as well though I can’t find the source on that.

Probably because he never said that, and that it's just something people probably made up and something Westerners take as fact (for whatever reason).
I don't doubt that he had his staff screen Game of Thrones, that's actually what I'd imagine a game developer would do, since that's really just the type of research many game devs go through.

But it's still a Japanese product designed for a Japanese audience.

With regard to FFXVI, they tried to get away with some censorship by toning down the violence committed by one of the antagonists, but thankfully other narrative sources still commit to it (I'm not going to risk a ban discussing it on this forum, so do your own research). It's that type of 'localization' which borders censorship because it quickly goes from 'eliciting feelings the devs wanted to a Western audience' to appeasing the insecurities of a foreign market while also detracting from the weight of the narrative because certain people might think a villain is too triggering.
Those people shouldn't be playing 17+ rated video games, god knows how they'd react to classical literature that actually does commit to it.

[OgruMogru]

Have a donut, that always cheers me up!

[Telkira]

Watch the hour-long segment of the Las Vegas Fanfest with the new lead of localization https://www.youtube.com/live/YozopuVW8Mo?t=24529

I skimmed through it, it really doesn't say that this is 'the only way to do it'. Do you have a time-code where they explicitly state this?

The only people getting *so* bent out of shape about this are pedants and the artless. Pick your poison.

A faithful translation doesn't disrespect the source material by assuming that the audience wouldn't be as entertained.
Trying to dismiss people who take issue with this as 'pedants' who know full-well that what they're reading isn't what was initially written, or what was canon, or what was censored outright (as is the case with the Haurchefant debacle) is nothing but an insult.

People want to know that what they're reading is faithful to and in-line with what it actually is, because things like artistic and literary integrity ultimately are what ground the product in its entirety. Calling them 'artless' is just baseless.

[Telkira]

Have a donut, that always cheers me up!

tfw English-speaking children actually watched this and thought that onigiri were just Japanese doughnuts.

[OgruMogru]

tfw English-speaking children actually watched this and thought that onigiri were just Japanese doughnuts.

Americans still don't get it right because it should be jam.

[MikkoAkure]

It's still done to appease a Japanese audience first and foremost. Using an obvious parody of English text for their fictional in-universe text, the use of songs with lyrics that are in English does not really change that. The game, from conception to production, is innately Japanese and designed primarily for the entertainment of a Japanese audience.

This is an MMO that is made to market a global audience. In the interview with the localizers, Square-Enix themselves have said FFXIV is "a title aimed at a global audience". Unlike other single-player JRPGs or anime, non-Japanese players aren't some satellite demographic that they considered to be a bonus to their main target audience. Everything is developed with everyone in mind. And again, the head localizer for the English version was the one who wrote and even sang many of the songs in the game and less than a handful aren't in English no matter which version you play.

The localization teams are also directly involved with the devs in the making of the game as a whole:

The English team is actively involved in naming of skills and location names, etc. and the wider localization team is invited to provide ideas and concepts for new creatures from their various cultures. Then there are situations where we do culture checks and flag potential issues in the story to avoid misunderstandings or to cater to contemporary cultural developments.

I do often provide ideas for names we could use for in-game terms, bosses, attacks, NPCs, places, titles, and things like that based on parameters from the team.

Probably because he never said that, and that it's just something people probably made up and something Westerners take as fact (for whatever reason).
I don't doubt that he had his staff screen Game of Thrones, that's actually what I'd imagine a game developer would do, since that's really just the type of research many game devs go through.

But it's still a Japanese product designed for a Japanese audience.

Now, moving on…ah, yes. English voices! Do try playing with English voices on a second playthrough, perhaps. I have a feeling that you can really appreciate the realism conveyed by the English voices.

https://noisypixel.net/final-fantasy...nese-lip-sync/

And that the game was designed for English:

The Japanese audience critiqued the title’s lack of proper lip sync for their language since Final Fantasy XVI’s development utilized the English dub at its core. The staff replied that they could not make it work since the facial movements are based on facial capture data with those who performed the English dub.

As for Game of Thrones:

If we want to create something that has that kind of western feel, we have to look to the west for that kind of inspiration. And so things like Game of Thrones are things that we look to because that type of stuff does not exist where we live in Japan.

[MikkoAkure]

I skimmed through it, it really doesn't say that this is 'the only way to do it'. Do you have a time-code where they explicitly state this?


A faithful translation doesn't disrespect the source material by assuming that the audience wouldn't be as entertained.
Trying to dismiss people who take issue with this as 'pedants' who know full-well that what they're reading isn't what was initially written, or what was canon, or what was censored outright (as is the case with the Haurchefant debacle) is nothing but an insult.

People want to know that what they're reading is faithful to and in-line with what it actually is, because things like artistic and literary integrity ultimately are what ground the product in its entirety. Calling them 'artless' is just baseless.

Then read Koji's interview when he talks about localization:
https://we-are-vanadiel.finalfantasyxi.com/post/?id=632

For the most part, non-Japanese players will never see the original story that was written in Japanese; in other words, whether or not the Japanese version of the story is interesting is irrelevant to them. Their evaluation will be based on the translated version, so there’s no point in having a translation if it isn’t entertaining. Most importantly, the scenes that left an impression in the Japanese version have to be translated to impress the players who are playing the English version instead.
[...]
When I was first hired, my translations were very faithful to the original, so if someone were to translate my English back into Japanese, they would end up with original Japanese text. But when a translation has phrases that aren’t used in English, the players won’t understand what you’re trying to convey. Translators need to consider the intentions behind the words, or the emotions won’t be conveyed to the players at all.
[...]
I’d like to believe that our translations managed to preserve the message behind the stories, and that they’re just as dramatic and emotional as the original Japanese. When I was translating for FFXI, I tried to convey emotions and the true message as naturally as possible, even if I ended up ignoring the grammar or sentence structure of the original text to some extent. I’ve maintained that outlook on translation since then, even after moving on to other projects.

If the text not being 1-to-1 bothers you, nothing's stopping you from learning Japanese.