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  1. #331
    Player
    Tama-Kanzashi's Avatar
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    Jun 2019
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    The Bureau of the Scribe
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    42
    Character
    Elde Sellecerre
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank View Post
    Ok found the short story, yeah the were all made in union with Lahabrea and Elidibus about their memories of the fourteen members, except for Azem. Which Emet made in secret.

    Still the text makes it clear that it's referring to Azem, unless you are pedantic...
    It doesn't make it clear, it literally talks about the former bearer, which is, by meaning of the word bearer, the person who carried it on them, the person in whose possession it was. Which was not Azem until recently.
    This has nothing to do with being pedantic, it has something to do with wrong terminology being used in this instance. The former bearer could never be Azem. It is impossible, so it is wrong to call them that.
    (9)
    While you were studying the blade, I was learning about better recycling methods from Elidibus.

  2. #332
    Player
    GrizzlyTank's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    1,714
    Character
    Livia Bloodletter
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tama-Kanzashi View Post
    It doesn't make it clear, it literally talks about the former bearer, which is, by meaning of the word bearer, the person who carried it on them, the person in whose possession it was. Which was not Azem until recently.
    This has nothing to do with being pedantic, it has something to do with wrong terminology being used in this instance. The former bearer could never be Azem. It is impossible, so it is wrong to call them that.
    In this case bearer would mean something like bearing a badge or banner. Yes Emet made the crystal, yes he carried it around. But he never bore it himself, for he would always be the one bearing the Emet-Selch crystal.

    While Azem, even though he/she left the seat, and never were given a physical possession of the crystal before we got it, bore his/her title always.
    (4)
    Last edited by GrizzlyTank; 07-15-2022 at 02:06 AM.

  3. #333
    Player
    Valkyrie_Lenneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    8,038
    Character
    Lynne Asteria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank View Post
    In this case bearer would mean something like bearing a badge or banner. Yes Emet made the crystal, yes he carried it around. But he never bore it himself, for he would always be the one bearing the Emet-Selch crystal.

    While Azem, even though he/she left the seat, and never were given a physical possession of the crystal before we got it, bore his/her title always.
    Yeah, this was how I read that.

    Comprehension issues maybe? English is a dumb language even when written properly.
    (2)

  4. #334
    Player
    Tama-Kanzashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
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    The Bureau of the Scribe
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    42
    Character
    Elde Sellecerre
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank View Post
    In this case bearer would mean something like bearing a badge or banner. Yes Emet made the crystal, yes he carried it around. But he never bore it himself, for he would always be the one bearing the Emet-Selch crystal.

    While Azem, even though he/she left the seat, and never were given a physical possession of the crystal, until we got it, bore his/her title always.
    That is not right either, since Azem very much definitely lost their title as Azem when they left the Convocation.
    Likening the crystal to a badge or a banner is not working as well as you think it does, as the crystal has a purpose and is not just an object to be stuck on your lapel as a symbol. The Convocation crystals served as vessels for memories. And the Azem crystal has a copy of Azem's personal magic pasted into it as a personal gift from Emet-Selch to them. It was never meant as a symbolic object like a badge or a banner, it has a function.

    Also the game never talks about the bearer of the title, it very much says the bearer of the crystal. As in, the object. The little tide-pod with the invocation in it. The forbidden magic gummy.
    The title is absolutely inconsequential for the purpose of the crystal. The wording of what Hydaelyn says there is not.

    And now before the argument "but they are always referred to as Azem!" pops up - it is the game's way of avoiding the hassle that would be giving a name to a character that is influenced by what you play as. Just like we do not get to see their face.

    If you want to go into the "badge" direction, sure, be my guest - Emet-Selch really created that thing as a badge of honor to remember his cool friend.
    (10)
    Last edited by Tama-Kanzashi; 07-15-2022 at 02:19 AM.
    While you were studying the blade, I was learning about better recycling methods from Elidibus.

  5. #335
    Player
    Rulakir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
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    977
    Character
    Sajah Lane
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 88
    Just going to add that at least in FR and DE the person being referred to is gendered to the WoL, so you know for certain Hydaelyn is speaking of their Azem. Regardless, the other languages refer to the creator of the magic not who 'bore' the crystal. It made me think whoever wrote that dialog forgot that Emet had created it in secret.
    (8)

  6. #336
    Player Ransu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Leaving my SAM in Kugane
    Posts
    2,948
    Character
    Raansu Omiyari
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jemachu View Post
    Whilst I'm not going to endure EW again to find dialogue, there is one particular example that immediately comes to mind from the cutscene post Mothercrystal trial:

    EN: "When the way forward is hidden even from the mind's eye, look not to the invocation, but within yourself. These were the words of the crystal's original bearer."

    DE: "Walk confidently towards your goal, following the dearest wish in your heart. Only then those powers will unfurl. Those were the words of the creator of this magic." (Original DE translated by Tama.)

    The EN translation was pretty confusing honestly, as the original bearer of the crystal was Emet-Selch...not Azem. Yet the DE dialogue makes it clear that Hydaelyn is in fact referencing Azem here. Perhaps you could enlighten me with the JP dialogue for comparison as I'd like to know with certainty who is meant to be being referenced here.
    I don't understand what you find confusing about the EN version there...Its literally saying the same thing as your DE translation.
    (6)

  7. 07-15-2022 03:04 AM

  8. #337
    Player
    Rulakir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
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    977
    Character
    Sajah Lane
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 88
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransu View Post
    I don't understand what you find confusing about the EN version there...Its literally saying the same thing as your DE translation.
    The fact you think this brings your grasp of English into question let alone any other language. Every response of yours has been disingenuous and not in good faith. I don't know what skin you have in this game, but when all you're doing is repeating the same response, i.e. "it's literally the same" when it isn't, it doesn't strengthen your argument it just makes it look like you have none.
    (16)

  9. #338
    Player
    Valkyrie_Lenneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    8,038
    Character
    Lynne Asteria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jemachu View Post
    Crystal's original bearer = Emet-Selch

    Creator of this magic = Azem

    Maybe that clears it up for you.
    You guys aren't very good at subtleties are you?
    (7)

  10. #339
    Player
    Tama-Kanzashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    The Bureau of the Scribe
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    42
    Character
    Elde Sellecerre
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth View Post
    You guys aren't very good at subtleties are you?
    Sure, if you think the difference between a chair and a construction crane is subtle.
    (15)
    While you were studying the blade, I was learning about better recycling methods from Elidibus.

  11. #340
    Player
    GrizzlyTank's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    1,714
    Character
    Livia Bloodletter
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth View Post
    You guys aren't very good at subtleties are you?
    It's amusing seeing 4-6 of them instantly back each other up on being pedantic.
    (7)

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