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  1. #1
    Player
    Tama-Kanzashi's Avatar
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    Jun 2019
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    The Bureau of the Scribe
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    Character
    Elde Sellecerre
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank View Post
    Azem did carry it, but as you recall he left his position leaving the 14th seat vacant in the midst of the crisis so Emet carried the crystal for safe-keeping and respect.
    ...Emet made the crystal after Azem had already left the Convocation.
    (11)

  2. #2
    Player
    GrizzlyTank's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    Character
    Livia Bloodletter
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tama-Kanzashi View Post
    ...Emet made the crystal after Azem had already left the Convocation.
    Ok found the short story, yeah the were all made in union with Lahabrea and Elidibus about their memories of the fourteen members, except for Azem. Which Emet made in secret.

    Still the text makes it clear that it's referring to Azem, unless you are pedantic...
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    aveyond-dreams's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
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    Character
    Fenris Pendragon
    World
    Spriggan
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    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jemachu View Post
    EN: "When the way forward is hidden even from the mind's eye, look not to the invocation, but within yourself. These were the words of the crystal's original bearer."
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank View Post
    Still the text makes it clear that it's referring to Azem, unless you are pedantic...
    No. It does not.
    (8)
    Авейонд-сны


  4. #4
    Player
    Tama-Kanzashi's Avatar
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    Jun 2019
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    Character
    Elde Sellecerre
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank View Post
    Ok found the short story, yeah the were all made in union with Lahabrea and Elidibus about their memories of the fourteen members, except for Azem. Which Emet made in secret.

    Still the text makes it clear that it's referring to Azem, unless you are pedantic...
    It doesn't make it clear, it literally talks about the former bearer, which is, by meaning of the word bearer, the person who carried it on them, the person in whose possession it was. Which was not Azem until recently.
    This has nothing to do with being pedantic, it has something to do with wrong terminology being used in this instance. The former bearer could never be Azem. It is impossible, so it is wrong to call them that.
    (9)
    While you were studying the blade, I was learning about better recycling methods from Elidibus.

  5. #5
    Player
    GrizzlyTank's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    Livia Bloodletter
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tama-Kanzashi View Post
    It doesn't make it clear, it literally talks about the former bearer, which is, by meaning of the word bearer, the person who carried it on them, the person in whose possession it was. Which was not Azem until recently.
    This has nothing to do with being pedantic, it has something to do with wrong terminology being used in this instance. The former bearer could never be Azem. It is impossible, so it is wrong to call them that.
    In this case bearer would mean something like bearing a badge or banner. Yes Emet made the crystal, yes he carried it around. But he never bore it himself, for he would always be the one bearing the Emet-Selch crystal.

    While Azem, even though he/she left the seat, and never were given a physical possession of the crystal before we got it, bore his/her title always.
    (4)
    Last edited by GrizzlyTank; 07-15-2022 at 02:06 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Valkyrie_Lenneth's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    8,038
    Character
    Lynne Asteria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank View Post
    In this case bearer would mean something like bearing a badge or banner. Yes Emet made the crystal, yes he carried it around. But he never bore it himself, for he would always be the one bearing the Emet-Selch crystal.

    While Azem, even though he/she left the seat, and never were given a physical possession of the crystal before we got it, bore his/her title always.
    Yeah, this was how I read that.

    Comprehension issues maybe? English is a dumb language even when written properly.
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player
    Tama-Kanzashi's Avatar
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    Elde Sellecerre
    World
    Odin
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    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank View Post
    In this case bearer would mean something like bearing a badge or banner. Yes Emet made the crystal, yes he carried it around. But he never bore it himself, for he would always be the one bearing the Emet-Selch crystal.

    While Azem, even though he/she left the seat, and never were given a physical possession of the crystal, until we got it, bore his/her title always.
    That is not right either, since Azem very much definitely lost their title as Azem when they left the Convocation.
    Likening the crystal to a badge or a banner is not working as well as you think it does, as the crystal has a purpose and is not just an object to be stuck on your lapel as a symbol. The Convocation crystals served as vessels for memories. And the Azem crystal has a copy of Azem's personal magic pasted into it as a personal gift from Emet-Selch to them. It was never meant as a symbolic object like a badge or a banner, it has a function.

    Also the game never talks about the bearer of the title, it very much says the bearer of the crystal. As in, the object. The little tide-pod with the invocation in it. The forbidden magic gummy.
    The title is absolutely inconsequential for the purpose of the crystal. The wording of what Hydaelyn says there is not.

    And now before the argument "but they are always referred to as Azem!" pops up - it is the game's way of avoiding the hassle that would be giving a name to a character that is influenced by what you play as. Just like we do not get to see their face.

    If you want to go into the "badge" direction, sure, be my guest - Emet-Selch really created that thing as a badge of honor to remember his cool friend.
    (10)
    Last edited by Tama-Kanzashi; 07-15-2022 at 02:19 AM.
    While you were studying the blade, I was learning about better recycling methods from Elidibus.

  8. #8
    Player
    Rulakir's Avatar
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    Nov 2021
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    977
    Character
    Sajah Lane
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 88
    Just going to add that at least in FR and DE the person being referred to is gendered to the WoL, so you know for certain Hydaelyn is speaking of their Azem. Regardless, the other languages refer to the creator of the magic not who 'bore' the crystal. It made me think whoever wrote that dialog forgot that Emet had created it in secret.
    (8)