This frequency of English localization issues is unacceptable

[Deveryn]

Seems like a lot of stress could be avoided by only consuming the content in one language. That people do this to themselves is extraordinary. I look at this thread and I look at the new tribal story and I laugh even more.

[Theodric]

Seems like a lot of stress could be avoided by only consuming the content in one language. That people do this to themselves is extraordinary. I look at this thread and I look at the new tribal story and I laugh even more.

That doesn't really account for the European region being full of players who may discuss the game with friends from different countries only to easily find through casual conversation that the story is saying one thing in French or German and then something completely different in English.

[Deveryn]

That doesn't really account for the European region being full of players who may discuss the game with friends from different countries only to easily find through casual conversation that the story is saying one thing in French or German and then something completely different in English.

Honestly though, English is an awful language to begin with.

[Lyth]

It's always strange seeing people's misconceptions about what 'localization' entails. There seems to be this mindset that you pop text into a magical translation box and out pops the work in a new language, and that accuracy is simply a matter of preserving a one-to-one mapping between words.

There's a reason why localization teams have moved away from the term 'translation', which literally means 'to copy'. A literal translation works best in technical manuscripts without emotional content, like instruction manuals. It also tends to be the preferred approach when you're completely unfamiliar with the work and have no way of communicating with the original author about the message that they're trying to convey. An outsourced localization team is much more likely to adopt a more literal approach, which also takes less effort.

Terms like 'localization' and 'transcreation' apply more to creative works, where you're trying to preserve the cultural and emotional impact of the work despite not being a native speaker of the language. If you localize a text to multiple languages, they're all going to be different! If you know that it's ridiculous to 'translate a translation' (i.e. convert a subtitle from japanese to icelandic to english instead of directly from japanese to english), then it makes even less sense to localize a localization.

This has been discussed in a number of interviews ranging from 2013 to 2021 (some of which you can find on the website itself), but FFXIV uses in-house localization teams in order to have two-way communication with the story writers. So if the intent of a particular message is unclear, they can literally just ask the quest writer directly and have a conversation about the character's emotions in that scene. And if there's a unique term or reference that NA/EU players would expect from a homage because of a historical Woolseyism, that might end up being taken on board by the writers and find its way into other versions as well.

This used to be a recurring topic of discussion on the Lore subforum as well, where a small group of players tried to gatekeep discussions by pretending that the French language text was the 'official text'. When people came back and posted some of the original Japanese phrases and found them in agreement with the English but not the French text, it pretty much stopped. Unsurprisingly, you'll see a few familiar faces.

tl;dr People with no linguistic knowledge of the source material trying to gauge localization accuracy using Japanese -> German -> French -> Ascian -> English literal translation fansubs.

[Larirawiel]

Terms like 'localization' and 'transcreation' apply more to creative works, where you're trying to preserve the cultural and emotional impact of the work despite not being a native speaker of the language. If you localize a text to multiple languages, they're all going to be different! If you know that it's ridiculous to 'translate a translation' (i.e. convert a subtitle from japanese to icelandic to english instead of directly from japanese to english), then it makes even less sense to localize a localization.

True. But localisation does not mean, that story relevant informations should be removed. But exactly this happens in FF14. That is the reason why i watch important cutscenes twice: in english and in german. And i see many differences between them. And almost no differences have a cultural background. And that is the problem, the players have in this thread.


Cheers

[Lauront]

This used to be a recurring topic of discussion on the Lore subforum as well, where a small group of players tried to gatekeep discussions by pretending that the French language text was the 'official text'. When people came back and posted some of the original Japanese phrases and found them in agreement with the English but not the French text, it pretty much stopped. Unsurprisingly, you'll see a few familiar faces.

tl;dr People with no linguistic knowledge of the source material trying to gauge localization accuracy using Japanese -> German -> French -> Ascian -> English literal translation fansubs.

What I recall from that lore forum was a bunch of posters trying to spin that UT quote in directions which the text itself does not support (at least not without making some strong assumptions), and which even that poster you reference agreed it does not support upon further questioning - although very bizarre interpretations of it re-cast as certain fact have, unfortunately, not stopped. It has been pointed out that the FR (and yes, the DE version) further refine his meaning in that scene. I am going to have to take that poster at face value regarding the JP version, but it just raises further questions as to why these differences between each version exist. You do not need "linguistic knowledge", beyond comprehending the language, to note these differences, though nice attempt at gatekeeping, and I somehow doubt you yourself - sneering contempt aside in your tl:dr aside - would meet your own standard anyway. Not that it matters. When facts are emerging from one or two localisations which are not at all apparent in the EN version, players are right to question this and I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it's not "pretty much stopped", because much as this thread shows, players are continuing to compare across versions and question why there are elements not present in the other localisations. Or are you oblivious to the fact that players from different regions speak to one another and compare notes, what with your bizarre reference to "fansubs"?

[Doragan]

That doesn't really account for the European region being full of players who may discuss the game with friends from different countries only to easily find through casual conversation that the story is saying one thing in French or German and then something completely different in English.

I agree. I have been using the french voiceover with jp text, and both are pretty similar. However, when starting conversations with english players, it's like we were playing a different game text wise. ARR, especially.
Cid's tone is pretty different overall. Like, In Praetorium, when you get to the elevator after Nero, he says " You're too bloody useful to die! ", when in french and japanese, he will say " You better not die, alright? Please come back to us in one piece." in a warm tone. It's minor, for sure, but it adds up fast I feel.

I FFXIV uses in-house localization teams in order to have two-way communication with the story writers.

It's important to note that starting with Endwalker, SE outsourced part of FFXIV's localisation. Mind you, probably not all of it, but it wasn't the case before.

[Xerkrosis]

I agree. I have been using the french voiceover with jp text, and both are pretty similar. However, when starting conversations with english players, it's like we were playing a different game text wise. ARR, especially.
Cid's tone is pretty different overall. Like, In Praetorium, when you get to the elevator after Nero, he says " You're too bloody useful to die! ", when in french and japanese, he will say " You better not die, alright? Please come back to us in one piece." in a warm tone. It's minor, for sure, but it adds up fast I feel.
[...]

It's something I noticed with many other characters, when checking the english language. Even the twins behaviour with eachother is different, where it's in english much harsher sort of love-hate relationship, where in french, japanese, and german they're more friendly with another.

Another moment was, when I was comparing the escape from castrum centri-cutscene in ARR. The differences of english to the other 3 languages are like day & night. Though in that cutscene I also noticed a few differences in japanese. 1. they're counting down 2. Papalymo's childlike voice, which made me laugh when I first heard it.

Localization all good and well, but it doesn't mean to change character traits or other characteristics the character designer had thought of. Imagine your carefully designed character would sound like a 90-year old in another language...

[Tsukino]

[...]Imagine your carefully designed character would sound like a 90-year old in another language...

Have you heard Feo Ul in English?

[DPZ2]

Cid's tone is pretty different overall. Like, In Praetorium, when you get to the elevator after Nero, he says " You're too bloody useful to die! ", when in french and japanese, he will say " You better not die, alright? Please come back to us in one piece." in a warm tone. It's minor, for sure, but it adds up fast I feel.

It's the difference between Cid addressing Henry Walton "Indiana" Jones as an American and René Belloq as a Frenchman.

The former is as warm in tone as the latter, if you've got the context from action films over the past 50 years.