This frequency of English localization issues is unacceptable

[Ransu]

The topic is localization issues, not debating what the EN "translation" is supposed to mean especially when it's not even remotely the same as the original dialog.

They convey the exact same message in your examples....

[Theodric]

The established trend seems to be that whenever Venat is mentioned in the English localisation, her role as a saviour is played up and her sins downplayed. Whereas whenever Zodiark or the Ancients as a whole are brought up there's not so subtle suggestions that they somehow had it coming despite being entirely undeserving of being targeted for genocide.

[Jagick]

Without reading through all 22 pages of this thread, forgive me if it's already been brought up.

When we received the February 2022 live letter, it was announced that Koji had actually been working on FF 16 since some time during Shadowbringers and that the new girl, Kate, had actually been leading the localization and translation since then. Could that explain the downgrade in the English translation compared to every other language? Either inexperience, bias, or simply another person's take on the translation and context? I've seen it more and more throughout games these days where the localizers take some pretty heavy and sometimes egregious liberties with the translations they make. Some of them just can't help but inject their own personal writing into the subject matter for some reason.

Edit: Read through several of the pages and apparently this was talked about multiple times. It's still what my money is on, as I assume as lead, Kate would be calling the final shots on the English localization.

[Teraq]

Also the French version despite copying the JPN often has made its own bizarre deviations, like making Mitron a women which was very confusing for folks over there.

Objectively the best thing the FR localisation team has ever done, ftfy

As someone who is actually a folk over there, source on "very confusing"? Personally I didn't feel very confused, merely validated. This is only a one-time thing anyway, it is only Cylva who uses a female pronoun, and Cylva knew Mitron a hundred years ago – he's gendered male as you meet him in Eden. It's not exactly surprising an Ascian would choose to possess bodies of different genders, especially one who has a female name and a boss appearance based on said goddess. Consider Loghrif also initially being taken aback by his current appearance. I know Altbion even asked if this was a mistake over on the FR forum, and they replied it wasn't.

(The fact that both Endwalker's English and French scripts pointedly obfuscated Ancient Mitron's gender is also ... interesting.)

This little tidbit doesn't make the meaning vaguer or takes away from the Japanese like the English blunders here; it just adds its little spin and subtly whispers Trans Rights at you without taking away anything. Mitron as you see him in Eden is still male-gendered, and their Ancient self's gender is still perfectly unknown. French only adds that Cylva probably saw them in a female form once and she went with that.

[Lauront]

Koji Fox is not working on XIV at the moment. He is working on XVI. He has been replaced by someone else called Kate, who has been the subject of some previous discussions here.

[ArslanMalqir]

Koji Fox is not working on XIV at the moment. He is working on XVI. He has been replaced by someone else called Kate, who has been the subject of some previous discussions here.

Sure, but Kate would have been selected by Koji Fox and Yoshi-P to take over, and she's been working on the game for years at this point. That would imply some sense of trust in her abilities and decision-making, and that she would be taking the same role Koji did, meaning working directly with the script-writers.

I do not find the argument that Kate is just a bad translator who tricks the original writers into letting her push her beliefs and ideas about the story by lying to them about what she's doing to be very convincing. That would require a complete lack of oversight and a complete misjudgement of her by the people at the very top of the game's team that she's been working with for years, as well as implying that the team have somehow not been aware of the differences in the script for months and months after the release where people have been pointing them out for ages.

The absolute most simple explanation, and thus the likeliest, is that the JP team and writers are in fact happy with the EN script, and don't consider any alterations made to be as meaningful as the critics consider them to be—remember again that they did, in fact, step in for Haurchefant as far as I can recall.

[KageTokage]

They do have to approve all versions of the script...but then again, these are the people who thought the long established FF spell naming schemes would somehow be too confusing to western audiences so making weird choices isn't beyond them.

[KariTheFox]

I'm not a huge fan of the English localization either - I don't really like the stylistic choice of the kind of faux old english being used, and think the tone and nuances of some of the characters get lost in translation.

But even so, I understand that localization is difficult and imperfect work, and that the localization team will always make decisions not everyone agrees with. It's a little ridiculous to posit a conspiracy theory where the English localizers have a secret agenda and are trying to pull a fast one, it's just silly.

What you're seeing is the result of the inherent difficulties translating art from one language to another, not Kate's master plan to... idk, mess up the script on purpose?

[Atelier-Bagur]

I'm not a huge fan of the English localization either - I don't really like the stylistic choice of the kind of faux old english being used, and think the tone and nuances of some of the characters get lost in translation.

But even so, I understand that localization is difficult and imperfect work, and that the localization team will always make decisions not everyone agrees with. It's a little ridiculous to posit a conspiracy theory where the English localizers have a secret agenda and are trying to pull a fast one, it's just silly.

What you're seeing is the result of the inherent difficulties translating art from one language to another, not Kate's master plan to... idk, mess up the script on purpose?

when people see something they feel is wrong. They purposefully go out of the way to believe that the whole universe has conspired against them and that there's always a nefarious purpose behind everything.

[ArslanMalqir]

I'd also definitely like some kind of source on the idea that Ishikawa was under the impression that translation was a 1:1 thing, because as far back as 2018 there's an interview with her and one of the localizers on the team where the localizer specifically points out that he sits close to her in the same office and they're constantly revising and going back and forth between each other as the scripts are being written, and if there's any confusion at all they go directly to the scenario team for information. They even pointed out that absolutely everything is sent to Yoshi-P for direct review before it's allowed to go out.

Even if it's no longer the case that she literally sits in the same office as them, I'd be absolutely shocked if Ishikawa somehow forgot the process in the years between then and now, or if the localization team just lied about it in a public interview.