Proposal for inner release change

[Launched]

No thanks. 4.0/4.1 WAR wasn't fun, and guaranteed direct crits are a nice alternative to a low % damage increase. WAR doesn't need changed because a few jobs have crit/direct hit raid buffs, fix those buffs instead.

[Colt47]

No thanks. 4.0/4.1 WAR wasn't fun, and guaranteed direct crits are a nice alternative to a low % damage increase. WAR doesn't need changed because a few jobs have crit/direct hit raid buffs, fix those buffs instead.

I'm just imagining what it would look like if they kept the inner release the same, but instead of making it 100% crit they did something like +25% damage. I just can't see it working given how the crit buff is sort of easily capped and measured vs putting in strait damage boosts. If they just changed the cleave to some special move that had insane potency when inner release is hit that could work, but then having a crit on a 600 potency attack is probably greater than getting auto crits on the current fell cleave.

[Absurdity]

I'm just imagining what it would look like if they kept the inner release the same, but instead of making it 100% crit they did something like +25% damage. I just can't see it working given how the crit buff is sort of easily capped and measured vs putting in strait damage boosts. If they just changed the cleave to some special move that had insane potency when inner release is hit that could work, but then having a crit on a 600 potency attack is probably greater than getting auto crits on the current fell cleave.

Well, how does it work for GnB? No Mercy gives you a 20% damage buff for 20 seconds, there is your answer.

[Ransu]

WAR is never going back to dmg or even atk power increases. Easiest way to balance a job is just to make it either 100% crit or dh to give the illusion of doing more damage when in reality its balanced. Also what you described was what IR used to be like at the start of 4.0. Berserk and IR were originally seperate with Berserk being a 20% atk power increase and IR just halving the costs of gauge spenders but that changed in 4.1 when ppl couldn't figure it out and ended up with 5 gauge at the end of it all.

Makes me sad really. I miss the ARR days when WAR was the "I'm going to beat you to a bloody pulp" type of tank. I mostly find tanking kinda boring, but old school WAR made it fun.

[Colt47]

Well, how does it work for GnB? No Mercy gives you a 20% damage buff for 20 seconds, there is your answer.

With PLD and GNB the idea is that it just boosts the damage on your main rotation, where as with DRK and WAR the damage buff comes from completely switching to a different engine. Technically, they'd have to move warrior to something more like what Dark Knight has with the Quietus, where the move just has more potency and they get to spam it. But if they did that I think it would take away the feeling of doing big damage for that one stretch, since DRK doesn't really give that feeling during Quietus spam. That's also why I don't really like the Quietus phase of DRK because it's just an aesthetically different primary rotation for a few seconds.

[fulminating]

But if they did that I think it would take away the feeling of doing big damage for that one stretch, since DRK doesn't really give that feeling during Quietus spam. That's also why I don't really like the Quietus phase of DRK because it's just an aesthetically different primary rotation for a few seconds.

How does this differ from fell cleave spam?

[Colt47]

How does this differ from fell cleave spam?

Probably the assured visual shake from doing multiple critical strikes and the big crit numbers, but also that the delirium spam relies completely on the increased potency. Otherwise they are the same thing. My comment was more on the feel of the two when a player uses them than functional difference.

[Absurdity]

The problem with Delirium is that it doesn't have increased potency, Bloodspiller is only 500 potency and Delirium doesn't buff it in any way, so of course it feels weak. Dark Knight in general doesn't have any really high potency attacks, it just has a ridiculous amount of dps oGCDs to make up for it.

What people seem to conveniently forget is that reworking warrior to get away from guaranteed direct crits isn't just a case of removing the buff and calling it a day.
The potency on Fellcleave has steadily been going down compared to other abilities to account for the guaranteed direct crits, of course it would feel lackluster if you just removed those without increasing Fellcleave's, Inner Chaos' (which honestly could just be removed if Fellcleave didn't hit like a wet noodle) and Primal Rend's potency.

You just need to look back at HW warrior. Old Berserk was a 50% attack power increase, which is basically just the same as a % damage buff, but Fellcleave was one of the highest potency abilities back then so that tripple cleave under Berserk hit like a truck, especially when crit rng blessed you.

Best current example is GnB's Double Down. Whether or not it's actually a good ability is questionable, but there's no denying that it has impact. And when you get blessed by the rng gods once in a while it doesn't just hit like a truck, it hits like a freight train, at almost double the damage of Primal Rend.

[Amenara]

The problem with Delirium is that it doesn't have increased potency, Bloodspiller is only 500 potency and Delirium doesn't buff it in any way, so of course it feels weak. Dark Knight in general doesn't have any really high potency attacks, it just has a ridiculous amount of dps oGCDs to make up for it.

What people seem to conveniently forget is that reworking warrior to get away from guaranteed direct crits isn't just a case of removing the buff and calling it a day.
The potency on Fellcleave has steadily been going down compared to other abilities to account for the guaranteed direct crits, of course it would feel lackluster if you just removed those without increasing Fellcleave's, Inner Chaos' (which honestly could just be removed if Fellcleave didn't hit like a wet noodle) and Primal Rend's potency.

You just need to look back at HW warrior. Old Berserk was a 50% attack power increase, which is basically just the same as a % damage buff, but Fellcleave was one of the highest potency abilities back then so that tripple cleave under Berserk hit like a truck, especially when crit rng blessed you.

Best current example is GnB's Double Down. Whether or not it's actually a good ability is questionable, but there's no denying that it has impact. And when you get blessed by the rng gods once in a while it doesn't just hit like a truck, it hits like a freight train, at almost double the damage of Primal Rend.

I agree, there would probably have to be a fel cleave potency change if they did end up removing DH/Crits from IR, depending on if they add an attack boost to IR instead. It's all knobs that can be tweaked to put warrior exactly where the Devs want them in terms of DPS. I would rather have higher baseline Fel Cleaves with those big hits thrown in when you are lucky enough to get a DH/Crit, be able to synergize with most of the buffs instead of barely synergizing with any of them (especially with the design mentality shifting to every job has their buff phase every 2 minutes), and be able to gear all my tanks the same instead of having to go for a Det build for warrior and have subpar secondaries for the other three tanks due to no DH.

[Shurrikhan]

No thanks. 4.0/4.1 WAR wasn't fun, and guaranteed direct crits are a nice alternative to a low % damage increase. WAR doesn't need changed because a few jobs have crit/direct hit raid buffs, fix those buffs instead.

Could hardly disagree more. 4.1 was probably the most enjoyable state WAR had ever been in. All it needed was a small Onslaught buff to maintain its potency-per-gauge efficiency despite FC's later buffs (direct and indirect), perhaps with a second charge by now, and for Inner Release to feel like it needed less wind-up, though if we'd had the second charge of Infuriate back then, that wouldn't much have been an issue, either. Revise the stance interplay slightly and add to that a more thematic take on two expansion's gains and you've got yourself a hell of a tank -- competent, creative, and decently complex.