Proposal for inner release change

[fulminating]

I want there to be some depth to the job, the beast gauge to have a reason to exist, the removal of this absurd hamstringing from direct crits, there to be any point in haste or even skill speed. I don’t want to play gunbreaker, it stands with new summoner as one of the most poorly thought out jobs. Hitting a lot of buttons doesn’t make it interesting, just irritating.

[Absurdity]

I don’t want to play gunbreaker, it stands with new summoner as one of the most poorly thought out jobs. Hitting a lot of buttons doesn’t make it interesting, just irritating.

I'd have to disagree there, it is quite well designed for the place that tanks currently occupy, which is essentially just beefier dps-light.

On GnB my mind is almost constantly occupied. What part of my rotation am I in? What does my next NM window look like and what GCD does it start on? Does the next mechanic involve downtime or movement and might cost me a GCD? Will it desync my GF combo from NM? Do I need to adjust my next burst for it? Do I need to pre-pop mitigation due to my limited weave slots?

Whereas back in ShB when I still mained warrior my mind actually started to wander in the middle of savage fights because my rotation was so incredibly simplistic and mindnumbingly boring that I could barely concentrate on it.

Press 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, press 1-2-4 so Eye doesn't fall off. Always keep atleast 20 gauge to press Upheaval on cooldown so it doesn't drift. What's the next mechanic? Doesn't matter because I only have 2 oGCDs, all the weave slots in the world for defensives and my burst is completely disconnected from my normal rotation. Just press IR on cooldown.

I dropped the job completely when I saw the EW changes and knew that this would only get worse.

[fulminating]

You sound like you're describing ShB monk. Having to work around buffs that are slightly too short for what you want to do. During shadowbringers GNB felt significantly better because NM was long enough to fit everything needed in, come endwalker it seems that they realised they couldn't get away with giving two tanks nothing and so opted to implement this rush job. Hopefully they don't decide that the regular combo also needs a continuation-alike come 7.0.

Upheaval but mostly yes. The inner release changes meaning you can't accidentally move infuriate forward 36s, IR only applying to fell cleave/decimate means you don't have to worry about having to use tomahawk under it, IR giving direct crits, IR giving unlimited beast gauge, Onslaught and Upheaval being removed from the beast gauge, Overpower being changed to another stupid circle, Vengeance no longer interacting with IR, NF/BW/RI healing being a flat potency and Storm's Eye being extendable to 1m all contribute to making the job feel worse.

The difference between GNB and WAR is that the GNB changes seem like incompetence and the WAR ones seem like malice.

[Absurdity]

You sound like you're describing ShB monk. Having to work around buffs that are slightly too short for what you want to do. During shadowbringers GNB felt significantly better because NM was long enough to fit everything needed in

I was just as annoyed with the changes as a lot of other people, and simply refused to learn the new rotation until savage released. After playing it for the entire savage tier however I've come around to it, because not being able to do the exact same sequence of button presses every minute made it slightly more interesting once I got used to it. I now have to remember what my next NM window looks like and what I need to do to prepare for it, since it changes ever so slightly every minute.


The fact that Continuation is only 5 yalms and makes it impossible to reposition bosses however is still nonsense.

If anything the last balance patch just underscored how lacking the job has become. I wish I had the optimism to believe that it will be changed for the better anytime soon.

It has steadily been on this path since the rework in 4.2. So no, I'm not optimistic either.

[ArianeEwah]

Before the gauge cost of Onslaught and Upheaval got removed, I thought a fixed gauge cost reduction (e.g. of 20) would've been great. It doesn't has to be no cost nor half cost.
If the opener is too weak under these conditions, you could change it that the amount possible in the opener will also the only amount possible later on - by stack count consume during x duration.

e.g. IR would only buffs/lowers cost of *insert number here* beast gauge skills during 30s

Yet Inner Release is just a proportion of the bucket of what's wrong with WAR. Infuriate and - if we go deeper - the combo choices are both part of the issue. Infuriate - stating the obivious - because you gain another critDH skill. The combo choices because you're pretty much forced into using SE max. 1.5 times/min, and the rest is SP and FC ad nauseam, but there is no option to pool gauge with effiency in mind, and is thus 'braindead'. Another combo choice (e.g. butchers block finisher) even if it ends up being niche, would grant more options for optimation... well, ANY option at all actually.

Anyway, when I wrote "you would except the dev team to change WAR" I actually meant "the dev should change WAR" because of their own reasoning, but I don't expect it actually. NIN was/is probably THE best job for raid synergy, but had its raid buff changed for more... synergy. While at the same time, SAM loses its place as preferred dance partner and has worse syngery with 2-3 jobs now (DRG, SCH, DNC only as dance partner), and WAR. STILL. has. NO. synergy. with 3-4 jobs! (DRG, BRD, SCH, 'DNC as dance partner')

In terms of raid/group synergy WAR is the WORST. designed. job. in. the. game!

The fact that Continuation is only 5 yalms[...]

It's 3 yalms like any other melee action, just saying. I agree with you, and the fact that iaijatsu got buffed to 6 yalms shortly after EW launch makes continuations' current state even more absurd.

It has steadily been on this path since the rework in 4.2. So no, I'm not optimistic either.

Me neither. Imho ShB was the worst that could happen to all job (re-)designs, while EW embraces and continues ShB legacy.

[Absurdity]

It's 3 yalms like any other melee action, just saying. I agree with you, and the fact that iaijatsu got buffed to 6 yalms shortly after EW launch makes continuations' current state even more absurd.

My bad, for some reason I remembered 5 yalms being the standard melee range on everything and didn't double check it.

[fulminating]

Whm, sge, smn and sch. I probably would include ast but I don’t play it enough to have an opinion.

If fell cleave cost 40 rather than 50 gauge, it would be more difficult to end on an ungainly number, but gauge generation would need rebalanced to compensate. Or the addition of something dps-neutral that allows the gauge to be fully emptied (either costing 5/10 or as much gauge as you currently have).

If anything the last balance patch just underscored how lacking the job has become. I wish I had the optimism to believe that it will be changed for the better anytime soon.

[Lyth]

If I understand this correctly, I think the main point of this thread is about resource management. The idea being that you would build up resources over a 60/120 second period and then offload them against a burst window buff, rather than just activating a buff that makes things free. It's a nice concept, and it can line up very naturally if the job's resource generation rate is specifically designed for it.

I think the major limitation with a lot of these discussions is that most players are primarily interested in what will make them the most powerful for the least amount of effort, setting aside the usual 'job complexity' humblebragging that you see on the forums and reddit. Patch 4.2's Unga Bunga was something that players specifically demanded. 'Gauge management on WAR is too complex, Crit/DH RNG prevents players from getting their Rank 1 run.' I even remember the cross-posted article which popularized the idea, an interview with a certain streamer in a now defunct magazine. So if your end goal is to get the community to buy in to the concept, you'll have to convince them that introducing a little extra bit of resource management for a similar reward is actually going to be more fun in the long run.

[Absurdity]

Patch 4.2's Unga Bunga was something that players specifically demanded. 'Gauge management on WAR is too complex, Crit/DH RNG prevents players from getting their Rank 1 run.' I even remember the cross-posted article which popularized the idea, an interview with a certain streamer in a now defunct magazine. So if your end goal is to get the community to buy in to the concept, you'll have to convince them that introducing a little extra bit of resource management for a similar reward is actually going to be more fun in the long run.

4.0/4.1 warrior's gauge management was too complex, atleast for the gain you got from playing it perfectly. Playing what was essentially ShB SMN but with the added hurdle of it being a melee, executing a 2 minute rotation without any mistakes while also having to deal with aggro management (Neo Exdeath's aggro reset sends it's regards) to deal as much damage as a PLD that just did 1-2-3 and pressed Holy Spirit 5 times was too much work for too little gain. But while 4.1 warrior was too complex they overcorrected too much into the complete opposite direction.

And even though I called patch 4.2 the start of warrior's decline I would also argue that it wasn't "that bad" back then because warrior still had quite a few mechanics to manage that made it not completely unga bunga.

None of those mechanics were super complex and I'm not sure if I'd even want them back, but they were atleast something.


You are right however, a majority of people seem to be happy with current warrior, which is why I simply gave up on the job after 2 years of trying to get things changed.
Unlike healers I atleast had the option to switch to a tank that I found more engaging.

[Shurrikhan]

Patch 4.2's Unga Bunga was something that players specifically demanded. 'Gauge management on WAR is too complex, Crit/DH RNG prevents players from getting their Rank 1 run.'

Weird that anyone parsing worth a damn generally decried the changes for being awkward and dull and noted then what SAMs have noted more recently -- that guaranteed Crits only make high parses all the more difficult, since it essentially siphons their portion of contribution towards the performance ceiling (all a parse-pusher would care about) to the performance floor. One literally cannot, in balance, parse as high on a good run as they used to.

The most typical requests by anyone who actually played the job regularly were for faintly higher tuning and a quicker wind-up (more for dungeons than for raids) and/or slightly better raid sync (though much of that overlapped with said raid buffs).