Just Another Housing Complaint

[Drkdays]

Like I said, some people just want to fight. Never try to disprove someone. It causes real pain and pain leads to retribution. Just restate your opinion and provide context. If some one comes along and says, "No, you're wrong!" just restate your feelings on the matter. Don't counter them; that just sidetracks you from the main issue, essentially giving them what they wish and ALLOWING them to inflict that same pain on you.

Some people get a kick out of hurting others and such tactics kill debates and turn it into a personal grudge match. If it gets to that point, you've already lost.

[Aldotsk]

My question is, how does anyone know it's going to be negatively affecting people by releasing instance housing when it was never really there in first place?

and don't talk about apartment as instance housing because that argument at this point is 200% trolling and you aren't really here to defend anti-instance housing.

[Fybrile]

Over 90% of player base don't care, that is not what they are here for
Housing to most of players is something nice to have but not a necessity
On this forum, this is just minority making loud noise.

Again, the flaw in your logic is you presume to know a lot of things you actually don't.

You don't know what percentage of players want a house, or how most players feel. No one does. These are "facts" you're pulling out of thin air.

You can, however, infer and extrapolate how many agree with us and agree with you by the amount of likes these posts receive. By that metric, it would seem more people agree with the premise of this thread than with opinions like yours, by at best a 4-1 margin. Of course, there's a bias in the thread title, so not an objective environment. If we go by the general themes of threads in this subforum's first few pages instead, it would seem the statistics are even more in our favor - around 10-1, suggesting players are unsatisfied with the current housing system by the inverse of your fake conjured statistic.

It's also hard to claim 90% of players don't care about housing when:

i. Personal houses are perennially sold out;
ii. New plots are sold out very quickly upon their release;
iii. On most servers it seems that there are between 20-50 players participating in each auction.

By every single metric, it's proven that many players do in fact care about housing. I wish PVP had this level of engagement - then queues wouldn't be so long.

I don't know how you go from thread to thread playing the gatekeeper, get 1-2 likes on your posts to the dozen or so likes on the posts refuting you, and then purport to be the voice of the majority.

Talk about fantasy role playing...

Majority of players just leave it be after they obtained one.

You know it's a house, right?

[HeyMcFly]

I agree; Housing needs to be made available to all in some way

Apartments & FC's do not offer different features from one another yet apartments are more expensive
Apartments & FC's need to be made the same size as a Small Cottage house- 200 items & 200 storage with a bottom floor

I've seen alot of people say housing wasn't meant to be this popular according to the devs which is why it's so limited & frustrating to deal with
This is on the XIV team for not trying to find a fix
Lotto was not a fix, just a poorly executed solution- hence the amount of FC wards over private wards.
The Lotto has gotten the Hrothgar/Viera treatment -implemented, half finished & left to collect dust

[Fybrile]

There are 7200 plots on Siren and only recently have wards been adjusted and that remains to be seen if they'll stay FC only and how the distribution will be handled when then begin to make adjustment. So really trying to use the 1440 is a bit disingenuous don't you think given many of those 7600 plots are already personal. I suspect they'll be no adjustments to the FC distribution until 6.2 but we could be surprised. In addition I suspect a lot of people are making small FC's to by pass the restrictions and in fact buying personal FC houses.

I don't disagree that ward housing isn't sufficient and in lieu of massive additions instanced housing alongside wards would be a better solution.

No, I don’t think it makes my post disingenuous. Every word is genuinely meant. Slightly incorrect, but not disingenuous. I thought that was self-evident by the sheer number of times I expressed doubt at my math and asked for correction.

It’s posts like yours that make my guess, my totally blind stab in the dark, to become more accurate. So thank you. Let’s fix it.

So, now we are at 35k active players (we are still assuming those are players and not characters) for 1440 plots plus about half of the remaining (7200 or 7600? I’ll use 7200 since it was first). So, about 4k personal plots, or enough plots for 11% of the player base. Better than 4%, but still not enough for 9/10 players.

Sadly, I don’t see this change making a substantive difference to the point, but it’s making the math more accurate which is great! My guess is that, when all the data is correct, we will still only see enough houses for fewer than a third of all active players.

[LaylaTsarra]

Sadly, I don’t see this change making a substantive difference to the point, but it’s making the math more accurate which is great! My guess is that, when all the data is correct, we will still only see enough houses for fewer than a third of all active players.

You have a link supporting those 35000 characters are active characters?

[Shibi]

You have a link supporting those 35000 characters are active characters?

Bancho is the closest, he tracks players as active if their profile, gear, title change survey to survey. But even that is not accurate as people do sit with zero changes.

https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/wsurve...tm?world=Siren

And it is characters. No way anyone knows who is who's alt, so accounts is impossible to know.

My more hypothetical question is if housing were guaranteed, how many of the people who aren't participating would be interested in getting a house? I think the lack of "interest" in housing is more of a housing supply problem then a potential want for a house problem. I get saying ~10% of players are actively trying to get a house or have one, but I believe the want for a house is much higher.

Hard to say. Some people clearly find the lottery to be too hard, and I can understand this, it's stressful! And some can't deal with that - nothing wrong with that.

But it's not a majority of the complaints here, just one or two people. But yes, that's a valid question. I still think 10% is about correct, but maybe add 5% to be generous. Not everyone cares about housing by a long shot.

And editing in also from below...

...I saw, in passing, 50k for Hyperion a few weeks ago, but I thought that was character population, not active players...

Lucky Bancho suggests 33,057 active characters on that world. Same disclaimers as to this is all a guess on their part with the source we have - lodestone

[LaylaTsarra]

Bancho is the closest, he tracks players as active if their profile, gear, title change survey to survey. But even that is not accurate as people do sit with zero changes.

https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/wsurve...tm?world=Siren

And it is characters. No way anyone knows who is who's alt, so accounts is impossible to know.

Thank you for the link and yeah I suspect alts are a sizeable number but that's hard to say. After all is said and done the lottery numbers have to at least give SE a better indication of those who want a house and who can't get one. Those who aren't bidding either don't want one or can't afford one or don't care enough to try and we're not talking placard clicking anymore but only showing up and putting your gil into the pot of those trying for it.

If they don't act on hard numbers there isn't really much we can do about it but continue to complain.

[Fybrile]

Alright, closer still. If you take an low average of that site’s statistics, and allocate 30,000 characters per server (about half of the 2.2 million reported), and then say that 2/3 of those characters are actual active players and the other 1/3 is alts, you’re left with 640,000 active players in the game (waaaaaaay low, but for the purpose of making a point, we’ll roll with it because anything higher than that just makes my point stronger). That would make the approximate 128k personal plots enough for 20% of the player base.

The point of all this pseudo science? It’s clear that on your best day, when all the numbers fall in your (SE apologists’) favour and we count only a quarter of the ACTIVE player base (remember, 10s of millions of players total), 4/5 players STILL couldn’t participate in this content even if they wanted to.

It’s just not enough.

[Fybrile]

You have a link supporting those 35000 characters are active characters?

It’s not my number to defend. Shibi posted it and hasn’t had a chance to respond to your and my request for clarification yet. I saw, in passing, 50k for Hyperion a few weeks ago, but I thought that was character population, not active players. I assumed active players in the math thus far so that his guess of 10% interest wasn't deflated - which it would be if that was characters. That number being characters would make the number of players currently bidding much more alarming.