So I Recently Picked up WAR

[Alleluia]

"The tank refused to tank."

Not failed to tank. Refused. In order to grief specific individuals to the detriment of the group as a whole. Which is what you were just suggesting.

It’s not refusing to tank if you are already tanking other things and someone else went ahead and tanked on their own. It’s gauging whether it’s worth it try to intervene. Depending on the scenario it isn’t. And it’s certainly not bannable to not tank something others pulled bc you weren’t able to keep up with them.this is like accusing a healer of refusing to heal you as you run along aggroing everything without allowing them line of sight on you.

[Alleluia]

Don't worry, the fact that you believe that "let die lol" isn't griefing is all the verisimilitude your post needed as to the type of person you are.

Yes. I am a horrible monster. You have unmasked me. Oh the shame. However will I live with this vile revelation.


This is why people avoid general discussion.

Can we not get into tanking philosophies. Communication is the key.

Most people will understand if you explain ahead of time. And if one(or all)wants to not listen to you and make you do it there way. Remember while its true that letting people die is against TOS, its also against TOS to push a playing style as a must.

Agreed. Everyone should communicate.

[Shurrikhan]

It’s not refusing to tank if you are already tanking other things and someone else went ahead and tanked on their own. It’s gauging whether it’s worth it try to intervene. Depending on the scenario it isn’t. And it’s certainly not bannable to not tank something others pulled bc you weren’t able to keep up with them.this is like accusing a healer of refusing to heal you as you run along aggroing everything without allowing them line of sight on you.

The specific premise was they're simply getting there first (when DPS "run ahead to pull groups/bosses faster than i can get my character to move"). To then, as you suggested, actively "Just let them die"... is, yes, griefing.

You are not otherwise busy. You have time to reach them. Full pulls are the standard. The extra mobs are almost always deposited at your feet. You know damn well that lag spiking and being left some 20 seconds behind is not the "scenario" being normed around here.

[Kenky]

"The tank refused to tank."

Not failed to tank. Refused. In order to grief specific individuals to the detriment of the group as a whole. Which is what you were just suggesting.

Incorrect.

The tank could already be dealing with other mobs, or are personally uncomfortable with pulling more than they can handle. The DPS running off and pulling more is not "The tank refuses to tank". It's the DPS being a prick.

Communication. The easiest way around this is to say, before pulling anything, is that you're new to tanking and will be pulling small until you get some confidence. If people have issue with that, then they can leave and find a new party. This is also something that Healers can do, by asking the Tank if they intend to pull big/small. Forcing players to take more than they are comfortable with is the punishable part.

And lastly, accepting their stance and moving on. People don't jump into the tank role and immediately go wall-to-wall and survive. People don't pick up White Mage and suddenly become impossible to kill. We all start in the novice side of the spectrum.

Edit: An extra caveat is simple. The DPS running off ahead to pull more than the tank? That is the DPS trying to force a Speedrun and that is punishable by the ToS. It is not the Tanks failing / refusing to do their job. The DPS in that scenario cannot report the Tank, even if the Tank decides to "let the DPS die" (which is technically a fault on the HEALERS part, not the TANKS part.)

[Nizzi]

Yes. I am a horrible monster. You have unmasked me. Oh the shame. However will I live with this vile revelation.


This is why people avoid general discussion.

Don’t recall mentioning anything about you being a monster. Are you perhaps speaking to someone else and replying to me by mistake? It's interesting though, because I did call you a griefer, and you're ignoring that. Are you afraid to admit that you enjoy griefing others?

You can try to hide it with irony or whatever you're trying to do, but you could simply be an adult and realize that griefing people in a videogame isn't okay? Do the role you signed up to do and don't try to exert your dominance over players by not fulfilling that duty because your ego is hurt. Ask them to stop doing it, and if they don't stop, dismiss them. The game gives you the option to deal with party members who are going against what the majority of the party wants; it does not give you the option to grief and troll because you're annoyed.

[Alleluia]

Incorrect.

The tank could already be dealing with other mobs, or are personally uncomfortable with pulling more than they can handle. The DPS running off and pulling more is not "The tank refuses to tank". It's the DPS being a prick.

Communication. The easiest way around this is to say, before pulling anything, is that you're new to tanking and will be pulling small until you get some confidence. If people have issue with that, then they can leave and find a new party. This is also something that Healers can do, by asking the Tank if they intend to pull big/small. Forcing players to take more than they are comfortable with is the punishable part.

And lastly, accepting their stance and moving on. People don't jump into the tank role and immediately go wall-to-wall and survive. People don't pick up White Mage and suddenly become impossible to kill. We all start in the novice side of the spectrum.

Edit: An extra caveat is simple. The DPS running off ahead to pull more than the tank? That is the DPS trying to force a Speedrun and that is punishable by the ToS. It is not the Tanks failing / refusing to do their job. The DPS in that scenario cannot report the Tank, even if the Tank decides to "let the DPS die" (which is technically a fault on the HEALERS part, not the TANKS part.)

Exactly this. And the above dps behavior seems to be what the OP was talking about.

[Shurrikhan]

Communication. The easiest way around this is to say, before pulling anything, is that you're new to tanking and will be pulling small until you get some confidence. If people have issue with that, then they can leave and find a new party.

For whom does it make more sense to inform the party? Whoever will do it the normal way? Or whoever will act outside the norm?

Communication isn't within the OP's scenario. Rather, others are simply following the norm, uncomfortable as it may be for a new tank, in the absence of being asked not to.

Forcing players to take more than they are comfortable with is the punishable part.

This cuts both ways.

1 player forcing 3 players to take on fewer than they are comfortable with is no less a matter of forcing one's preferred playstyle onto them. The only reason it isn't typically made anything of is because the run won't go any faster if from pulling more if the tank's being new really will bottleneck it.

Because so many tanks underestimate their hardiness (or, rather, underestimate that until later levels, their healers can keep them up even if the tank uses no more than passive mitigation), many parties will test that limit at least once --risking a single wipe and a lost minute of time in returning with reset CDs-- rather than simply accept the tank's playstyle preference over their own, complete their run taking at least some 50% longer.
__________

If a single player, even the tank, is repeatedly trying to force a speedrun, they are acting outside of the majority's interests and can be kicked.
If a single player, even the tank, is repeatedly trying to force a slothrun, they are likewise acting outside of the majority's interests and can be kicked.
That the latter is so often privileged over the prior is simply a matter of tanks and healers most often forcing a slothrun, because they can do so tacitly, and their taking longer to replace than DPS.

What makes you think pulling aggro ahead of the tank is the norm, though?.

By that "norm," I am referring to full-pulls.

And ask yourself, how often does the tank both refuse to pull fully and decline to communicate?

[Alleluia]

For whom does it make more sense to inform the party? Whoever will do it the normal way? Or whoever will act [I]outside the norm[/I

What makes you think pulling aggro ahead of the tank is the norm, though? 9/10 of the pugs I’ve been in, even when I’m not tanking, the tank controls the pace and aggroes mobs. Maybe you have dps range some mobs just before the tank gets to them, but I’ve only ever had dps outrunning the tank and forcing their pace maybe three times that I can remember? In 8 years of playing. I’d be careful claiming what is or isn’t the norm here.

[hagare]

And even then, you can just teleport in 15 seconds into the fight, Provoke, and go on unimpeded.

yes. more reason to just be chill

i too enjoy not doing the role i signed up to do (heal) and instead exercise my psychotic desire for any amount of control over someone by not healing them when they do something i dislike

instead of talking to them i will simply not do the thing i signed up to do (heal) because being social is scary and i much prefer trying to make someone "learn" by punishing them and griefing because i enjoy the misery of others

it's funny though, i don't see "mentor" or "teacher" or "not healer" in the Healer name? Just like I don't see "puller" or "leader" or "head of the pack" in the Tank role? But Healers have "heal" in the name, and Tanks have "tank" so that's kind of awkward

I don't heal, I control whether you live or die. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA *cough*

[Padudu]

Same thing you should do as a healer. Let them die. lol

You can also be nice about it and try to do your job anyway even as they work against you. Depends on how obnoxious they’re being.

Ah, the small tank pp mindset. I hope you know that ordering tank diapers comes with a pacifier for all the crying you must do when a DPS hits sprint before you do