The future of Summoner

[stellahawke]

Im pretty sure they are just going to go the BLM route and divide the 6 summons between Umbral and Astral elements (3 each respectively). It would keep the same gameplay design and allow for more freedom i.e. you can choose which form to start in.

Example:

Bahamut (Umbral) - Shiva, Titan, Leviathan
Phoenix (Astral) - Ifrit, Ramuh, Garuda.

Plays like EW SMN but you can choose to go into either Bahamut or Phoenix at the start of the battle and it simply flips to the other once you do the full rotation. Then once you complete both trances you then unlock Judgment Trance which lets you summon Alexander. However I would like to see them have fun with SMN. Like a random chance to summon fat chocobo or even king mog with only visual differences but otherwise no change to potency or gameplay.

the problem with this is that its basically will become a bluemage at this point. more summons is not the answer to fixing the class.

[CasterSvarog]

the problem with this is that its basically will become a bluemage at this point. more summons is not the answer to fixing the class.

I mean seriously, priority number 1 right now should be to bring some depth to the job again not brand new additions to make a new Jenga tower. Things like changing the summons/trances into oGcds, allow for more uses of aetherflow abilities, less free movement tools (Glares at Topaz). Heck I wish they would bring the dots back, just give the job some distance between the floor and ceiling because at this point the difference between the two is minuscule.

[Axxion]

one thing that could work is they way you summon the usual three in different combinations changes the demi summons

[Kulve]

I agree with the above. I’m sure we will get Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan in 7.0 to come after Phoenix. I would have loved to have that now but I think they just ran outta time on the job. So for now it’s half baked. Which sucks btw.

I think we also need some ogcd summons as well. We have none. Fester and Painflare need to go tbh. They do not fit in this rework at all. That will open up spots for at least two ogcd summons. Maybe Ravana and Bismarck or the warring triad.

Pets are the jank of SMN and is still prominent. Having Carbuncle on the field ust to do Radiant Aegis is jank when you summon any of the Arcanums or Demi's because now it's locked for x seconds. Imagine having more abilities that are Summons, but you can't use them when you want to because the GCD Summons are taking up time, and then Demi's prevent you from using them for a whole 15 seconds. The only way this could even work, is if SMN rolled up on BLU, beat it, stuff it in a bag, and toss it in the sea to take the primal abilities it has.

Im pretty sure they are just going to go the BLM route and divide the 6 summons between Umbral and Astral elements (3 each respectively). It would keep the same gameplay design and allow for more freedom i.e. you can choose which form to start in.

Example:

Bahamut (Umbral) - Shiva, Titan, Leviathan
Phoenix (Astral) - Ifrit, Ramuh, Garuda.

Plays like EW SMN but you can choose to go into either Bahamut or Phoenix at the start of the battle and it simply flips to the other once you do the full rotation. Then once you complete both trances you then unlock Judgment Trance which lets you summon Alexander. However I would like to see them have fun with SMN. Like a random chance to summon fat chocobo or even king mog with only visual differences but otherwise no change to potency or gameplay.

The real problem with this is that it validates that the current build of SMN is not complete and to do this would require yet another rework to fix and work. Even then, this would need to be a gradual introduction of mechanical change and not something that is just thrown at the players face at 91. Just having to change how Demi's are summoned would require a rework since they're all on the same button that makes it impossible to have any choice in the matter. Doesn't mean I don't agree.

[stellahawke]

I mean seriously, priority number 1 right now should be to bring some depth to the job again not brand new additions to make a new Jenga tower. Things like changing the summons/trances into oGcds, allow for more uses of aetherflow abilities, less free movement tools (Glares at Topaz). Heck I wish they would bring the dots back, just give the job some distance between the floor and ceiling because at this point the difference between the two is minuscule.

the only ceiling is rng procs. there is no skill other then rng for number damage

[SweetPete]

the problem with this is that its basically will become a bluemage at this point. more summons is not the answer to fixing the class.

I’m sorry but why is it called summoner again? A summoner summons things. Please enlighten us on what else a summoner should do. I’m actually quite curious.

[CasterSvarog]

I’m sorry but why is it called summoner again? A summoner summons things. Please enlighten us on what else a summoner should do. I’m actually quite curious.

Well for the past 8 years it’s been a job based around dots and pets, later gaining a burst phase that invokes the idea of a summoner.

Gonna be honest. If this was the case Dark Knight would be a tank that burns it’s own HP, but because it’s an MMO they sure as hell can’t do that. Summoners have always summoned, it’s in the freaking name for goodness sakes, but they should do more then just summons. Even in past games in the series, Summoners did more then just summon. FFIV had Rydia use Black and white magic spells ranging from the basic fire and blizzard to Bio, poison, stop, break, and flare just to name a few, alongside the games many summons, in FFIX Garnet & Eiko function as a White mage/Summoner, and in just about every other numbered game in the franchise almost all characters could summon and, by proxy, do more then just summon.

So why should XIV just be the job that does nothing but summon, XI already did that before. We shouldn’t be binding Summon to the clause of ‘it’s a summoner it’s only supposed to summon’ because by that state of reasoning Dragoon shouldn’t have anything that isn’t a jump, or Bards using archery, or White Mages shouldn’t have had elemental based spells. Jobs can have more to them, then just a lone gimmick.

[stellahawke]

I’m sorry but why is it called summoner again? A summoner summons things. Please enlighten us on what else a summoner should do. I’m actually quite curious.

summoner does not mean summon out everything. they should get the class done right before trying to add anything. if they add more summons it will just be a carbon copy of what we currently have just look at what they did with bahamut and phoenix. its the fact. they wanted smn to be easy. so why would they make even more summons with each summon have there own mini rotation. the need to fix the base of the class cause right now they cant add anything that is not just a ability swap. also the blumage comment was about how the class has now flow its just a chaotic mess.

[SweetPete]

Well for the past 8 years it’s been a job based around dots and pets, later gaining a burst phase that invokes the idea of a summoner.

Gonna be honest. If this was the case Dark Knight would be a tank that burns it’s own HP, but because it’s an MMO they sure as hell can’t do that. Summoners have always summoned, it’s in the freaking name for goodness sakes, but they should do more then just summons. Even in past games in the series, Summoners did more then just summon. FFIV had Rydia use Black and white magic spells ranging from the basic fire and blizzard to Bio, poison, stop, break, and flare just to name a few, alongside the games many summons, in FFIX Garnet & Eiko function as a White mage/Summoner, and in just about every other numbered game in the franchise almost all characters could summon and, by proxy, do more then just summon.

So why should XIV just be the job that does nothing but summon, XI already did that before. We shouldn’t be binding Summon to the clause of ‘it’s a summoner it’s only supposed to summon’ because by that state of reasoning Dragoon shouldn’t have anything that isn’t a jump, or Bards using archery, or White Mages shouldn’t have had elemental based spells. Jobs can have more to them, then just a lone gimmick.

Are we playing the same job in FFXIV? Because the summoner I am playing can cast ruin, energy drain, fester, painflare, a res, a shield and a damage buff. So no we don't just summon but it is the core of the job. Yes the summoner in FFIV did use black and white magic. In FFXIV we have black mages and white mages for that. So not sure you sold me on your vision of summoner. Do I think the job is half baked? Yes I do. However, Summoners need more summons. Not black magic or white magic that will step on the toes of those jobs currently in the game.

[Marxam]

the problem with this is that its basically will become a bluemage at this point. more summons is not the answer to fixing the class.

And BLU ironically has the most depth of any job atm. You can be a tank, healer or dps and you get to choose which skills to take. Certain skills having synergy with others, not to mention status effects. How is this design philosophy bad when many ppl keep saying the jobs lack depth? It's only bad for casuals who can't grasp the concept of simple things like "tank stance on" or "dps using aoe on multiple targets". You also fail to realize that this is a SUMMONER. In FF games a SUMMONER, SUMMONS. If you have any ideas feel free to post them instead of just saying "your idea is bad"

I mean seriously, priority number 1 right now should be to bring some depth to the job again not brand new additions to make a new Jenga tower. Things like changing the summons/trances into oGcds, allow for more uses of aetherflow abilities, less free movement tools (Glares at Topaz). Heck I wish they would bring the dots back, just give the job some distance between the floor and ceiling because at this point the difference between the two is minuscule.

If you want depth in jobs I think this game is no longer for you. In-depth jobs died after 4.1. All jobs are viable and all jobs are locked to 1-2 min cd bursts. No job has a niche to fill in a party because all jobs bring the same tool kit just with different animations ex. all healers are locked to an "aetherflow" system of 3 charges for their heals, or all tank stances being a trait, etc. You fail to realize this game is no longer for the "hardcore" that ARR/HW was geared toward. It's geared towards casuals and making things easier for them.

My suggestion only adds to what they implemented in EW while not changing anything drastic. If you played prior to ShB you would know that SMN used to have to go though dreadwyrm trance twice before entering Bahamut trance. This plays nearly identical but just with Bahamut/Phoenix (each once) to enter Alexander, which should be the lvl 100 skill imo. What they decide to do with each summon is speculative. Summons can provide utlity, dots, burst etc, and revolve around cycling through the stances but that is all hypothetical.

All I'm seeing is that they might go the route I suggested as it is the "easiest" way to add more summons without adding too much buttons i.e. If you are in Bahamut you can only summon Shiva, Titan, Leviathan but once you enter Phoenix, those buttons change to Ifrit, Ramuh, Garuda respectively. You added 3 new summons with no added buttons which is in line with their design philosophy.