The future of Summoner

[M0rrigan]

I'm not here to bash if the changes were good or bad for Summoner on Endwalker (even tho I personally like it), but how can Summoner evolve from its current kit with new skills in future expansions.

Personally, I like the current kit of summon rotations and their respective skill combos while waiting for the big ones (Bahamut and Phoenix), but after a while it gets repetitive doing the same 3 summons over and over, and it feels like transitioning to Phoenix and doing the exact same summons you just did is a bit lackluster in terms of variety. So I was thinking, with the current kit flow settled after the rework, wondering if they're planning on adding more summons in the future, at least for animation variety, would they add the remaining missing elements? (lightning, ice and water, aka Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan from the ARR primals).

I was talking with a friend and she said it would add too many skills for SMN if they ever did that, which made me think of ways they could implement a new set of primals to the current kit without disrupting or making it too long, and then it hit me. Why not replace the 2nd set of 3 summons with the new ones? so it would go like:
Bahamut > Garuda+Ifrit+Titan > Phoenix > Shiva+Leviathan+Ramuh > Ruin IV (or an upgraded new skill) and repeat, adding more flavor to animations but retaining the kit flow with the same length and gameplay. So casting Phoenix would grant Sapphire Arcanum, Amethyst Arcanum and Diamond Arcanum instead of Ruby, Emerald and Topaz.

Ifrit is like a hard cast and melee combo, Garuda is a mix of a hard cast ground AoE dot and fast instant attacks, and Titan is purely instant cast weaving OGCD combo, so making the new summons be the equivalents, but with their respective attacks.

• Shiva could be the hard casting and melee combo replacing Ifrit, because she uses different weapons, including both melee and range abilities. Casting Diamond Dust on summon, and an animation with shield+sword stance for the gap close combo. Either staff or bow animation/attacks for the two hard cast abilities.
• Leviathan could be the ground dot and instant attacks replacing Garuda, having a water puddle as the ground AoE dot and some water cannon related abilities for the four instant casts.
• Ramuh could replace Titan as the instant attack with OGCD combo using ranged lightning attacks.

And adding a new gauge UI element that activates after you've used all the element arcanums for a final big hit in the combo, as the max level ability of that expansion level cap, that could also help with the awkward single global cooldown downtime there is currently after using all your arcanums and the Ruin IV GCD before Bahamut or Phoenix come up. Since SMN's main theme revolves around Bahamut, it could be Teraflare, a more powerful flare than Megaflare and Gigaflare. SMN's current LB is called Teraflare, but it uses Gigaflare attack, so a name change could easily solve that. Or keep LB as Teraflare as LB is a stronger ability, and make the new one Gigaflare or Megaflare.


I just really want more summon flavors, and I know this is mostly just wishful thinking, but it would be really nice if they added something like this for more variety if they're gonna stick with the current SMN kit. It wouldn't be hard to balance at all because it's just basically animation work, not damage formula changes, so the main (and current) combo would remain the same. Let me know what you think!

[Kulve]

My problem with this is just a repetition of problems that other people have with long term engagement with the job. Doing as you have said which is already been mentioned several times is only a Enkindle recolor. Yes, you can summon the other 3 main summoners of the franchise. The problem is it's literally a copy/paste of the same rotation with no real change in interaction. A glorified VFX job and no substance.

If you wanted another opinion on what they could do? Fix the Arcanist elements of the jobs (Energy Drain, Fester/Painflare) and give it the mechanical interaction to upgrade the given summons to higher summons.

They could also give us a separate trance that can be used between Demi's to would allow higher summoning in between.

I know a lot of people want more summons. But just slapping on more Ruin recolors and Enkindle recolors, without actually making any change in how the player engages with the job to obtains these in anyway and only repeating the same rotation only leads the jobs stagnation. Especially if you're implying there would be no change in the rotation going into 7.0.

[NemuNemu14]

My problem with this is just a repetition of problems that other people have with long term engagement with the job. Doing as you have said which is already been mentioned several times is only a Enkindle recolor. Yes, you can summon the other 3 main summoners of the franchise. The problem is it's literally a copy/paste of the same rotation with no real change in interaction. A glorified VFX job and no substance.

If you wanted another opinion on what they could do? Fix the Arcanist elements of the jobs (Energy Drain, Fester/Painflare) and give it the mechanical interaction to upgrade the given summons to higher summons.

They could also give us a separate trance that can be used between Demi's to would allow higher summoning in between.

I know a lot of people want more summons. But just slapping on more Ruin recolors and Enkindle recolors, without actually making any change in how the player engages with the job to obtains these in anyway and only repeating the same rotation only leads the jobs stagnation. Especially if you're implying there would be no change in the rotation going into 7.0.

I love how we use all summons now but I agree, its really repetitive

[Zarkovitch]

No worries they are going to make mini gameplay on each summon so it feels different for new ones. Like shiva enkidle can be a long cast spell while the normal one is instant, Levi is a instant cast spell on enkidle however cast normal spell will be 1 sec or something finally ramuh can be gcd skills can hit meh but is ogcd one hit like a truck. I'm sure devs will spice it up our gameplay on next expansion meanwhile keeping our not so much button to press playstyle.

[stellahawke]

eh i think the class is just going to get another rework sense its a rushed unfinished job. and just adding more summons will just make the problem worse. smn now is just a non limited bluemage. it has no flow

[Flana]

I'm sure devs will spice it up our gameplay on next expansion meanwhile keeping our not so much button to press playstyle.

I've certainly never heard this exact quote before, especially after a controversial rework extremely simplified a different dps job! What could possibly go wrong?

[george357]

it seems like sos for smn make changes and everyone complains try to fix and everyone complains a no win for smn well till they really try to fix this i will keep mine in time out .

[Risvertasashi]

I've had similar thoughts. Phoenix phase is just begging to have a different set of primals after it. I fully expect we'll have that next expac - I bet we already would, had this rework come along sooner.

My biggest issue is just how smn plays at low levels now. But then, that's a lot of jobs with how big the disparity between current endgame and previous endgames has become. And I hope the new deep dungeon isn't introduced so late that we have hardly any time to enjoy it, on smn or anything really, before level sync kicks in... but historically, unfortunately, that hasn't been the case.

[SweetPete]

I agree with the above. I’m sure we will get Shiva, Ramuh and Leviathan in 7.0 to come after Phoenix. I would have loved to have that now but I think they just ran outta time on the job. So for now it’s half baked. Which sucks btw.

I think we also need some ogcd summons as well. We have none. Fester and Painflare need to go tbh. They do not fit in this rework at all. That will open up spots for at least two ogcd summons. Maybe Ravana and Bismarck or the warring triad.

[Marxam]

Im pretty sure they are just going to go the BLM route and divide the 6 summons between Umbral and Astral elements (3 each respectively). It would keep the same gameplay design and allow for more freedom i.e. you can choose which form to start in.

Example:

Bahamut (Umbral) - Shiva, Titan, Leviathan
Phoenix (Astral) - Ifrit, Ramuh, Garuda.

Plays like EW SMN but you can choose to go into either Bahamut or Phoenix at the start of the battle and it simply flips to the other once you do the full rotation. Then once you complete both trances you then unlock Judgment Trance which lets you summon Alexander. However I would like to see them have fun with SMN. Like a random chance to summon fat chocobo or even king mog with only visual differences but otherwise no change to potency or gameplay.