"balancing" some jobs

[Thorime]

Trying to be as polite as I can but I think it's hard to after this round of "adjustments".
Who is responsible for the "balance" of this game mode doesn't play this game at all, we have some many jobs that are literally toxic and they went out of their way to add another one to the list.
1) Ninja is absolutely busted, they have literally EVERYTHING from a Stun, Silence, invisibility, heal, regen, barrier, ranged poke with LOW CD, Nuke 1 hit kill LB, Movement Speed, team damage boost(mug), 3 gap closer, AoE and heavy. This is without a shadow of a doubt the most overloaded and overpowered kit in the entire game, a okay ninja can easily 1 shot anyone, no matter the job and there is ZERO counter play.
2) White Mage, Polymorph is stupidly easy to exploit, people are using 3rd parties to INSTA Polymorph targets that are using their LB such as DRG and such. WHM's LB is another NUKE aoe with a stun and damage reduction and let's not forget the reset Cure 2 bug that makes almost impossible to actually kill a WHM without 3 players dogpiling them.
3) Warrior, another overloaded kit that just brings too much, 15 seconds AoE stun and a PULL that gives HEAVY as well and don't forget about how ABSOLUTELY busted the ANTI GUARD is since it just negates one of the core mechanics of this game mode.
4) Black mage is now added to the mix, 3 seconds freeze with a REALLY high damage output, shields and AoE freezes with a HIGH damage and gap closers with a HUGE burst. BLM needed a small buff on the dot potency, no idea who thought it was important to literally make BLM a unkillable CC monster.
We the other side as well, jobs that are on Life support right now and feels like they don't udnersatnd or care to help them.
1)Dancer, does basically nothing. I think their gameplay was suppose to be an annoying backline harasser but they don't do enough damage to justify even playing one, you need a galaxy brain to even get a bit out of it and it is still underpowered.
2) Gunbreaker, a tank, that NEEDS to have ANOTHER TANK in the ENEMY team to get a defensive. No CC outside of ult and basically a bad version of a DPS. As fun as it is they need a potency increase on their gnashing fang combo.
TLDR Hardcore Nerf WHM/NIN/WAR/BLM and buff DNC/GNB.

[DioK]

You missed one:

Bard, still a dead body on the field.

[Raraka]

I have some points where I disagree with you, let me elaborate:

> Ninja: Nuke 1 hit kill LB

This is factually incorrect. If you read Ninja's LB tooltip it executes only if you land it under 50% HP. Aside from that, it is the LB with the least damage from all the classes which have a LB that consists of straight-up dealing damage with the LB (RDM being the only exception, which is 6000 damage in white shift, and 12000 damage in black shift)

I will not deny that the power to execute even through guard is a big powerhouse (Especially in frontlines) but you need to factor in that the Ninja is animation locked for the duration of the LB animation, where you have a window to shut down the ninja. The main strength of the LB is its ability to chain multiple kills with good team play, but still, with the 4 spammeable heals everyone has, staying under 50% HP is a risk you must be aware of when playing against ninja.

The True 1-hit KO LB is Samurai's, which specifies in the tooltip it does 100% of the targets HP as damage.

> White Mage: let's not forget the reset Cure 2 bug

It was already patched.

However, I do agree that Miracle of Nature (Polymorph) on a 25-second cooldown that cannot be purified is extremely strong, and people who use cheats like auto-polymorph make playing against a WHM stupidly frustrating.

That's about it for the things I disagree with, to comment further, I believe the big issue with Warrior is the AoE Stun, if they changed it to a Stun on target and AoE Heavy for 2 - 3 seconds around the target, it would be far more acceptable. But right now it just feels BS when you get hit at the edge of the warrior's AoE range and get stunned for the full duration.

And to add on my own feedback, I believe WHM's LB should work like Pneuma, build up into the LB and then shoot the beam. Why? because right now you get stunned first, then you get hit by the beam, and it just feels as terrible as getting stunned by a Warrior that is starting to jump at you, yet you are stunned from the start of the Warrior's animation.

[Thorime]

@Raraka
Let me explain the "nuke" part of my argument, let's take BLM's HP as a comparison, 48.000, so if you are 50%, the damage will be equivalent to 24.000 potency that bypasses guard. This is PURE insanity in a job that is already overloaded as it is and there isn't really a counter play for that except respawning. Samurai if you hit them during their defensive, it's your fault and you got outplayed, getting exploded by a Ninja feels extremely unfair, specially if you are on guard already and there are triggers that allow them to insta target you if you are in that HP range.
White Mage, yes, I forgot they fixed it but the other points still stand, Poly is easily exploitable since no casts and un-purifiable. Not the skill itself but more on the nature of how Purify works, it should remove ALL CC, no matter what kind it is.

[Gserpent]

NIN: Highest versatility, and *by far* the lowest DPS of any melee. It's fine.

WHM: Polymorph is fine. No damage, doesn't prevent you from moving, long cooldown. LB is fine, WHM's kit between LBs is garbage compared to every other healer's, they are wholly reliant on landing big LB hits to make things work (which is why WHM falls off hard in high skill games.) They fixed the Cure 2 bug in the 6.11 hotfix. It's fine. They probably actually need Misery to go back to 12k because they currently have the lowest DPS output of any healer over time.

WAR: High DPS, high control, and they are by far the most fragile tank because of it after the Bloodwhetting nerfs in 6.11. Orogeny and Onslaught cost a substantial amount of HP and their sustain got nerfed, making them much more tricky to play. Unlike DRK, they don't get invuln with their LB. It's fine.

BLM: *Probably* overpowered now after the unnecessary potency buffs in 6.11a, but it's hardly gamebreaking. LOSing is very important against BLM because of how much time they need to spend casting spells. Standing in the open is a death sentence if there's a halfway competent BLM around. They should probably revert the potency increases, but it's otherwise fine.

DNC: Strong class, but it *needs* a coordinated team. Which makes it pretty unreliable in forced solo queue. DNC is extremely powerful if you have a competent DPS on your team, weak otherwise. It's fine.

GNB: Highest DPS tank, reasonably tanky, and even moreso after the buffs. DPS and Healer junctions are by far the best to use and they are also the most likely you'll have reliably. 20% boost to healing output from No Mercy is no joke, it's quite significant and means Aurora and the AOE healing procs can provide an immense amount of sustain for your team and yourself. GNB with DPS junction has DPS output equivalent to a melee DPS while being tankier than all of them except MNK, and has extremely high burst potential. It's fine.

No offense, man, but I think you aren't playing in high skill games. Pretty much everything you said is stuff you only hear low skill players saying.

[Thorime]

@Gserpent
Just looking at your Post History shows that you are a troll, bad one at that. Trying to call my "skill" into the argument only augments the fact that your opinion is invalid, I'm on high diamond and most of my friends that play at high level are at 2k range on crystal.
The fact that you are taking SINGLE player's damage into consideration shows that you don't understand the nature of the game in a high level, in coordinated play you can EASILY dogpile a player and burst them in less than a GCD, it's not the single job that matters, it's the team's, CC is even more OP when you take coordinated play where you can easily bait a purify and explode someone after that.
And saying that DNC is strong in a coordinated team is the equivalent of saying it is good in "Catch the ball faster", we don't have a queueable mode with a coordinated team so once again, it is invalid for the current modes we have available.
All those jobs are meta for a reason, they are clear OP to a point that most players that are on top 100 are one of those jobs.
Anyway, not gonna entertain you and your attempts at trolling.

[NyneSwordz]

Dude you call gserpent a troll but he logically responded to each of your complaints. I think it's you man.

[Petite]

Dude you call gserpent a troll but he logically responded to each of your complaints. I think it's you man.

They really do sound like a troll though. By most people’s standards, they spout thoughtless takes one after the other and has no self-awareness. It’s fine to be wrong on occasion, but they’re different and will argue semantics to the bitter end instead of reflecting on their statements.

Here are just 3 recent examples of the takes they proudly proclaim, two of them on this very thread :

’’Shukuchi sucks for escaping’’
I’ve played a lot of NIN and I know for a fact that Shukuchi is hands down the best escape ability in PvP.

’’NIN damage is by far the lowest’’
No.
- NIN’s 1-target burst very potent with a simple Bunshin>Assassinate>Mug>Mudra setup;
- NIN can AOE very well because of Goka being a 20K AOE dot;
- If their team is focusing a target, a NIN can simply Mug>Forked Raiju>Fleeting Raiju them for an instant 4 seconds-long double-stun, leading to an easy kill or a Purify burn.
- NINs worth their salt fight out of melee range 90% of the time which makes them the safest melee to play, especially when you consider shukuchi.
- Finally, if you don’t think NIN’s LB is a little busted, you’re probably a NIN main.

’’WHM LB is fine’’
I won’t entertain this statement.

There are a ton more such takes, but I think I proved my point enough. That’s why I now choose not to reply to them as I learned why people called them a troll. You might think it’s not in the spirit of a forum to ignore someone, but as I already explained, I avoid nailing Jell-o to walls.
I’m not here to tell you what to think. I’m explaining why their reputation precedes them.

[Ransu]

They really do sound like a troll though. By most people’s standards, they spout thoughtless takes one after the other and has no self-awareness. It’s fine to be wrong on occasion, but they’re different and will argue semantics to the bitter end instead of reflecting on their statements.

Here are just 3 recent examples of the takes they proudly proclaim, two of them on this very thread :

’’Shukuchi sucks for escaping’’
I’ve played a lot of NIN and I know for a fact that Shukuchi is hands down the best escape ability in PvP.

’’NIN damage is by far the lowest’’
No.
- NIN’s 1-target burst very potent with a simple Bunshin>Assassinate>Mug>Mudra setup;
- NIN can AOE very well because of Goka being a 20K AOE dot;
- If their team is focusing a target, a NIN can simply Mug>Forked Raiju>Fleeting Raiju them for an instant 4 seconds-long double-stun, leading to an easy kill or a Purify burn.
- NINs worth their salt fight out of melee range 90% of the time which makes them the safest melee to play, especially when you consider shukuchi.
- Finally, if you don’t think NIN’s LB is a little busted, you’re probably a NIN main.

’’WHM LB is fine’’
I won’t entertain this statement.

There are a ton more such takes, but I think I proved my point enough. That’s why I now choose not to reply to them as I learned why people called them a troll. You might think it’s not in the spirit of a forum to ignore someone, but as I already explained, I avoid nailing Jell-o to walls.
I’m not here to tell you what to think. I’m explaining why their reputation precedes them.

He's also the same guy who said fire was viable for BLM lol. Take anything gserpent says with a grain of salt.

Shukuchi is good when it works, but there are plenty of tines where I will use it and immediately have cover blown due to AOE or having a cast on me land. In which case, I'm often a sitting duck. It absolutely has helped me get away from enemy parties in the past, but it's never a guarantee and fails as an escape just as much.

If you use it right 99% of the time it works perfectly as an escape. Yes the tick rate will take you out of stealth sometimes which sucks, but with sprint you're already far enough away anyways that it doesn't matter.

[Bureda]

They really do sound like a troll though. By most people’s standards, they spout thoughtless takes one after the other and has no self-awareness. It’s fine to be wrong on occasion, but they’re different and will argue semantics to the bitter end instead of reflecting on their statements.

Here are just 3 recent examples of the takes they proudly proclaim, two of them on this very thread :

’’Shukuchi sucks for escaping’’
I’ve played a lot of NIN and I know for a fact that Shukuchi is hands down the best escape ability in PvP.

’’NIN damage is by far the lowest’’
No.
- NIN’s 1-target burst very potent with a simple Bunshin>Assassinate>Mug>Mudra setup;
- NIN can AOE very well because of Goka being a 20K AOE dot;
- If their team is focusing a target, a NIN can simply Mug>Forked Raiju>Fleeting Raiju them for an instant 4 seconds-long double-stun, leading to an easy kill or a Purify burn.
- NINs worth their salt fight out of melee range 90% of the time which makes them the safest melee to play, especially when you consider shukuchi.
- Finally, if you don’t think NIN’s LB is a little busted, you’re probably a NIN main.

’’WHM LB is fine’’
I won’t entertain this statement.

There are a ton more such takes, but I think I proved my point enough. That’s why I now choose not to reply to them as I learned why people called them a troll. You might think it’s not in the spirit of a forum to ignore someone, but as I already explained, I avoid nailing Jell-o to walls.
I’m not here to tell you what to think. I’m explaining why their reputation precedes them.

Someone smells like a hater!

Apparently when a team focuses a person, the Ninja caused it. Damn that NIN kit is so busted!

Ninja literally cannot stand toe to toe against other melee and has to kite.
Let's ignore the fact that everything and their mum has AOE's with questionable range or hit rate due to server ticks that makes Stealth the clunkiest mechanic in the game.

Calling people trolls but here you are trolling trying to justify your inadequacy.

Nice!