Quote Originally Posted by Kenky View Post
So you're asking me to flip through 500+ pages of another thread to get my answer and scroll through an alarming amount of people being hostile and toxic to each other.. When you could've just explained it in blunt terms in half the time and with much less of a headache? This thread alone, simply by looking at the last few pages turn from actual conversation and discussion into just attacking each other.
Sure am. Listen, the topic of msq criticism is a lot deeper than can be summed up into a singular post. You'll get a much better understanding of why people dislike it if you take a look at the discourse that surrounds it. And once again I urge you to look past the petty squabbles because there ARE good points in there. Once again, you seem eager to discard criticism because it's not in a form you deem acceptable.

And no, it's not a misunderstanding. The OP pointed out Job Imbalance. Using "imbalance" instead of "design" alludes to their effectiveness in actual gameplay. Its skills and capabilities. Hence the stance. But here you are, changing the word to "design" and acting as if that was the original conversation when it wasn't. I'm not "mischaracterizing", I'm responding to the OP.
If it's about what op specifically was saying, they made it clear they were referring to pvp. That's a much different topic than that in which you would discuss the difference in dps numbers; numerous jobs in pvp are beyond overtuned with how they can completely disable numbers of people with status effects and demolish them with damage. But as far as pve goes, you'll find the general consensus to be based around playstyle. That's why there's so many threads complaining about healers.

When I ask in a polite manner "Why do you feel this way" it's usually met with being told why. Not "go read it elsewhere." I will admit, not a fan of the attitude. But I suppose if you have posted it plenty of times in the past, it's only logical to say "go here" instead of posting it yet another time. But your assumption that people (me specifically) would look through other threads to get one statement that could be taken out of context (or the context outright unknown, due to posts prior to it) is kind of off-putting.
It's not realistic to expect that regarding a subject that's as complicated for people as the msq is. It can't be easily summed up in a single post without being severely abridged and a poor representation of what's trying to be said.

And lastly, I'm not asking you to explain it in a way that's easily rebuttable. I'm simply asking you to state your case. How you state it is entirely up to you and if you think it's not a good enough case, thats a you problem. And yes, actually. I can claim "echo chamber". People have done it before and merely mentioning the fact that it could potentially BE an Echo-chamber should make people either realize, or look back and reflect. To make sure that it's actually a discussion. Not just an army of Yes-men.
We're not on trial, no one is obligated to do that for you. I'm telling you that you're better off finding out by peering through other threads, including this one where there's been a certain degree of discourse already. You can even see it starting on the very first page of the thread. The fact that you won't look through even this one is telling me that you're unwilling to read and learn, and prefer to lean back onto complaints that people are fighting. Even if people are fighting over it and being immature, they're still expressing their opinions.