Current Problem Parallels

[KizuyaKatogami]

Sorry if I was more interested in going after the end of the world rather than following the drama of a character who died in ARR

Drama?

She was Urianger's best friend, a mentor, one of the very few he allowed to get close. Anyone could see the guilt he had at not seeing her parents. terrified of what they would say..terrified they would blame HIM for her passing. saying that he could have saved her somehow.

Survivor guilt does that to you, you stay away form those they were close to, afraid they would lash out at you and hold you responsible, even if it wasnt the case.

So....drama? Soap opera drama? Thats what it sounds like to me

[Theodric]

I can't say I ever cared much about Moenbryda but I thought she had a touching send off back during the days of ARR.

I'd have been more interested in a renewed take on Nabriales' defeat in light of knowing the full story behind the Ascians and their goals.

It helps, I suppose, that he has a full head of hair instead of that dubious half-shaved hairstyle Moenbryda sports that is alarmingly common in games these days!

[Kuritzkale]

Guy?

See, right there, that's the issue.

Pre formed bias based on your own personal experiences.

"Everyone on the internet must be a guy"

"Fat shaming is a constant issue in America so it must be a thing in the rest of the world"

Ignorance and preconceived biases impressioned onto other people, other cultures, other ways of life.

Taking any tiny shred of anything, no matter how shady the source and believing it.

Remember, the rest of the world doesn't have nutty cults like QAnon and we certainly don't watch things like Infowars and believe everything printed in the New York post.

Edit: Heck doesn't your country have this whole thing where some of the country don't believe that Stalin was a Genocidal maniac? While you also have Neo Nazis walking around in broad daylight?

Practice what you preach first otherwise you're just throwing stones in the biggest glass house on planet Earth.

This is one of the most brilliantly psychotic posts I've read in a long time. You're either the best troll I've ever seen, or genuinely lost and confused by simple conversations, with a tendency to bring up random things that you think support what you're saying but actually really don't.

[Kenky]

I feel it best to simply ask one question.

"What do you have against Endwalker? What parts do you feel were mis-steps?"

I ask this, because I cannot really find any place where you put it down in actual words what parts people actively dislike, without being mired by emotional outrage. It would skip over all of the hate-flinging that this thread has seemingly become.

But on the other hand, some of the points you bring up are.. Well, to be frank, things that will always remain and, at times, actually help the game. The "Job Imbalance" part specifically.

If all Melee DPS hit as hard as a Samurai, then you lose out on Samurais main selling point, since Samurai doesn't really bring much else to the table (compared to other Melee)
If all Tanks had a Warriors self-healing, then you wouldn't take Paladin, despite it having better defensive skills. The Self-Healing would keep them up even without popping Rampart.

Just as a few examples. Every class fundamentally cannot be on the same playing field as others of its type. because if they were, you eliminate the reason to pick any other class but <insert top-class here>

As it currently stands, there's a lot of groups that willingly choose to bring a Monk, or a Ninja over a Samurai, because Monks can help healers with Mantra, or communicate to put all their burst into a Ninjas Trick-Attack window. If they were truly balanced, then all Melee DPS would get their own Trick-attack. Because that skill by design gives Ninja an advantage.

Unless you mean entirely just "DPS charts" balancing. In which case, you still fall into the pitfall I described. There will always be heavy-hitters that don't bring much team utility and those that under-perform, but make up for it by supporting. (Red Mage being coined "The Rez Mage" is evidence of this alone)

And lastly, WoWs "downfall" is attested to a lot of things. The company losing focus and pandering, the community turning venomous even to its own kind, the constant requirement of 3rd-party addons just to beat fights, etc.

(Yes, WoW Devs did publicly point out that they hated having to build fights later on that made 3rd-party tools a requirement. A quick google can prove this.)

As it stands, while there are some similarities (often shocking ones) a fair number of the similarities can be pinned to two communities still merging together. While I welcome our WoW refugees (that some are still not perfectly comfortable), there are a notable amount of them that haven't really done away with their old personality and that causes some friction.

Which in turn, causes XIVs community to become a bit more hostile in response, then it escalates and escalates.. You see where I'm going with this.

[anhaato]

So you don't understand the problems and you don't want to.

[Syrri]

Hey guys, game is fine, no changes needed. Yoshi-P keep on keeping on.

If you don't like it cry/quit/runback2wow/leave YOSHI-P ALONE

Where's my island sanctuary?

[Kenky]

So you don't understand the problems and you don't want to.

If this is directed towards me, I will once again reiterate.

"What do you consider a Mis-step?"

We can go on and on about how "I dont understand the problem" when the problem only exists in your personal view, but it feels rather bittersweet to condemn one without explaining the stance you've taken. Which is why I asked what your stance is. Why you've taken it. I've explained how I see it and outlined the reasons why I have that stance. If you want to be taken seriously, the next step would be to explain your own and why your stance is "better" than mine. Not make a snide quip and act like you're superior.

Unless your intent wasn't a discussion, but an echo-chamber. But then you'd be admitting it.

[anhaato]

If this is directed towards me, I will once again reiterate.

"What do you consider a Mis-step?"

We can go on and on about how "I dont understand the problem" when the problem only exists in your personal view, but it feels rather bittersweet to condemn one without explaining the stance you've taken. Which is why I asked what your stance is. Why you've taken it. I've explained how I see it and outlined the reasons why I have that stance. If you want to be taken seriously, the next step would be to explain your own and why your stance is "better" than mine. Not make a snide quip and act like you're superior.

Unless your intent wasn't a discussion, but an echo-chamber. But then you'd be admitting it.

There's pages upon pages of discussion readily available for you to flip through of people's criticisms of the story, but you seem intent on either not reading it or outright dismissing it as "emotional outrage." It's not my job to explain things in a way that you specifically request. I, and many others of us, have already succinctly laid out our thoughts in numerous threads. There's a 500+ page thread specifically devoted to msq criticism. If you truly wish to find out, take a look at what people are already saying. But, again, you're deriding people's responses as "emotional outrage" which tells me that either you're not interested in finding out, or that nothing will satisfy you unless it's presented in an easily rebuttable manner. Some petty arguments in these threads should not detract from the merit of points made before, or even during, but that's all you seem to care about.

But your misunderstanding of the problems is more than just that of the msq. You're mischaracterizing people's dissatisfaction with job design as being related to balance and numbers, when really most of us are referring to the playstyles. I have yet to see a single person ask for all melees to be doing the same damage as SAM like you allege.

You can't start claiming echo chamber when all you've done is feed your confirmation bias.

[Kenky]

So you're asking me to flip through 500+ pages of another thread to get my answer and scroll through an alarming amount of people being hostile and toxic to each other.. When you could've just explained it in blunt terms in half the time and with much less of a headache? This thread alone, simply by looking at the last few pages turn from actual conversation and discussion into just attacking each other.

And no, it's not a misunderstanding. The OP pointed out Job Imbalance. Using "imbalance" instead of "design" alludes to their effectiveness in actual gameplay. Its skills and capabilities. Hence the stance. But here you are, changing the word to "design" and acting as if that was the original conversation when it wasn't. I'm not "mischaracterizing", I'm responding to the OP.

When I ask in a polite manner "Why do you feel this way" it's usually met with being told why. Not "go read it elsewhere." I will admit, not a fan of the attitude. But I suppose if you have posted it plenty of times in the past, it's only logical to say "go here" instead of posting it yet another time. But your assumption that people (me specifically) would look through other threads to get one statement that could be taken out of context (or the context outright unknown, due to posts prior to it) is kind of off-putting.

And lastly, I'm not asking you to explain it in a way that's easily rebuttable. I'm simply asking you to state your case. How you state it is entirely up to you and if you think it's not a good enough case, thats a you problem. And yes, actually. I can claim "echo chamber". People have done it before and merely mentioning the fact that it could potentially BE an Echo-chamber should make people either realize, or look back and reflect. To make sure that it's actually a discussion. Not just an army of Yes-men.

I'm not here to start a fight, bud. I'm trying to spark discussion and get it back onto the topic at hand. Or would you prefer going back to hating on the Lalafells?

[ForctyusGold]

As a longtime WoW vet, like really long time, there's honestly a lot of issues in Endwalker, and the response seriously parallels the reasons WoW declined like it did.

The housing debacle which managed to satisfy only a tiny percent of the population?
There should be outrage over it, and we should hold them to a higher standard.

Job imbalance? The same thing. The current pvp situations with the constant flux? Same thing.

This isn't to complain about them in particular, but to the overall response we're seeing.

As it currently stands, any kind of player unhappiness or wanting to ask the dev team to be held to a higher standard is met by the community with one of a few things:
"If you don't like it then quit"
"I'm happy so I don't care"
"You can't expect the devs to solve this problem"

These kind of responses are what slowly sent WoW into an uncontrolled death spiral.
As issues that needed addressing popped up, the community would take to the forums, and complain and try to get the game to reverse course.

It was met with fierce resistance every single time. Getting told to shut up, or to quit, or to find a new game, etc etc.

We are seeing the exact same thing currently happening right now on FFXIV.

EW has had some absolutely serious mis-steps. But by far and large the community has absolutely demanded that there be zero criticism ever because one time Yoshi-P cried on camera or something.

The fact that there is an entire army waiting to bludgeon even the most honest and valid of complaints and concerns is the telltale sign that FFXIV is entering into it's decline period. Much like WoW did. It's not going to magically be a bad game tomorrow like people think. It's going to be a very slow, very gradual process, where one bad mistake after the other is added. People will try to say something, because they love the game, only to be met by a community who will take every single opportunity to be hostile and will defend every single bad decision like a matter of personal honor.

What happens is a slow spiral of people starting to leave, feeling like they no longer have a voice in the game they love.

The mistakes made in Endwalker point to a strong shift in ethic when it comes to what the team is putting out. This is by far and beyond the most divisive of the expansions. People can point to SB but that was mostly due to story and pacing. EW suffers from a lot of bad decisions people complained about early, that still weren't addressed.

It's that level of hubris that brought WoW down.

as someone who didnt play WoW .. stop bringing this WoW stuff here . thank you .