Current Problem Parallels

[Adamantini]

It really does feel like at some point you lost the story and just refused to pay any attention afterwards.

Ok, Let's go again.

Zodiark is a god created to fix the celestial aetherflow, effectively creating an aether shield to ward off the dynamis bombarding etherys.

Okay, so what are your thoughts? Did he need those sacrifices? Is it his source of power? why did he need them to do this for him? And if he was this way because they made him this way, Hydaelin knew it was going to go wrong, she could have gotten better.

Hydaelyn sundered him (and the world) which made him very weak

Yeah, that everyone know. But the real question here is "How"? If she had the power to subdue a god, why didn't she do something to defend her people?

The blue meteion is the one that didnt personally get corrupted by despair, the network just took over and drowned her out.

If Meteion functions as a "single mind", having one off the grid is a plot hole.

The person turning in the foundation is the blasphemy in the caster role story, I take it you just havent done that quest line.

So why it's in the main quest?

My interpretation is that she never had the chance to sunder them and therefore we always would have had to deal with them

It's the end of a story. It cannot have "I think" "my interpretation". It's over, we were supposed to be sure

Hydaelyn wanted us to find out the pieces of the puzzle for ourselves so that we would have the clarity and resolve to face despair itself.
(...)"Hear, song of creations end. Feel, the sorrow of hope's demise. Think, and find your way in the darkness." It's a response and preperation for meteion when she says "I wish to hear your words, share your feelings, know your thoughts". We wont defeat her by power alone, we need to conclude her mission with atleast one hopeful planet.

For me Meteion had not been planned before. "protect, Zoldiark, Moon". 3 words, a series of doubts, a better ending. For years we would wonder "protect who? Zoldiark? But isn't Hydaelin good and Zoldiark bad? Moon? What's on the moon?"
In the end, everything would fall into place, much better than "hear, feel, think"

Y'shtola never died, she used crack teleport magic twice, got heavily injured by zenos once and terraformed the path with her soul like the rest of the scions in ultima thule. Was she close to dying multiple times? yea sure

independent, is already boring in the same way. Every expansion is the same thing. There's already a bet going on between my friends when Yshtola will "die", and a scion will disappear

(Continue)

[Adamantini]

I am not surprised you didnt care for moenbryda's parents, you clearly didnt care for the story in general at that point.

I don't care about bad stories. If they wanted to make a drama, do it the first time we arrived in Sharlayan, not after we were in a hurry to save the world.

The lopporits only make sense if they are cute and approachable. They are supposed to welcome the people onto their new home on the moon, do you want the housekeepers to look approachable or do you want them to look like behemoths?

For real? I don't trust a bunch of teddy bears that say they terraformed the moon. Put someone charismatic but less silly and I'll take it seriously.

You're just taking story points and ask 'why do they make sense, i dont want them to'.

No, I'm throwing it in the guy's face, back there, that his writer didn't know how to write the story. I'm not saying "I didn't like it", I'm arguing because it's bad.
Again, they couldn't answer the questions about Hydaelin and Zoldiark, they created holes in the script, and they didn't even get a coherent narrative.
Why it is bad? Simple, because after Zoldiark died, there was no more time for cute bunnies on the moon. The expansion lacked urgency, leaving the "end of the world" story a joke.
In their urgency to make the characters the audience likes more "funny", they made most of them stupid, to the point where Graha, the Crystal Exarch we met in the first, a guy who stops in the middle of catastrophe, to talk about tapestry.
Elpis was irrelevant. If his goal was to build the boss, he didn't fulfill it. If his goal was to answer who Venat is, he did it wrong.

You know the story in a game is bad when people have to explain in paragraphs why its good lol

This.
Not only that. It was supposed to end the story, and what I see most in LL, are questions about Hydaelin, Zoldiark, Emet... But the story is already over, why are there still so many doubts?

[BrokentoothMarch]

5. Being rude toward the paying customer. I can't name one instance where YoshiP has ever been rude toward the subscriber base, I can name dozens where Ion and the other WoW devs have been outright hostile toward theirs. They fostered a very abusive relationship toward their customers and that was always going to end badly for them.

"Go play Ultimate". (To say nothing of the fatshaming and housing reaction and laughing at Hroth etc etc etc.)

That is all. Pay attention to LL's before you develop an opinion. Please and thank you.

OK, but they make changes based on said feedback, and a lot of people will come back here and complain about how that "wasn't what they meant"

Considering how they've been acting, they haven't been listening at all. A very clear message was sent across the world: Do not remove Kaiten.

Kaiten is permanently removed.

Again, why should I bother expressing my problems that will be ignored? Six years of healing being in the dumpster and on fire only to be told to screw off. And it's on me? I'm not gonna do Yoshi's only job. He does literally nothing else anyways, the man has to do SOMETHING.

[Raoabolic]

The first game was actually pretty decent. It's why the backlash against the sequel was so strong.

I might watch a playthrough of it for the story since I hear it's a nice take on the zombie genera but

so you're just jumping on the hate bandwagon eh.
lmao.

the gameplay looked lame so I passed on it. No hate, just don't feel like wasting my time on an interactive movie, lol. Now if you excuse me I have a MSQ to finish. :^)

[KizuyaKatogami]

5. Being rude toward the paying customer. I can't name one instance where YoshiP has ever been rude toward the subscriber base, I can name dozens where Ion and the other WoW devs have been outright hostile toward theirs. They fostered a very abusive relationship toward their customers and that was always going to end badly for them..

You mean besides when Yoshi P fat shamed someone cosplaying a ninja at a 14 con event? Where he said “Even Ninjas need to work out more and lose weight” or something along those lines. Or how about when finally addressing healer concerns after 6 years, his response was “go play ultimate” basically telling healers to f off. Or how about when he was recently showing off the hrothgar hairs on stream and couldn’t help but laugh at them ?

[Raoabolic]

You mean besides when Yoshi P fat shamed someone cosplaying a ninja at a 14 con event? Where he said “Even Ninjas need to work out more and lose weight” or something along those lines.

Really? He didn't call em' Ebisumaru or something as part of the joke? I thought he was a real gamer. :/

[Vrankyl]

I don't care about bad stories. If they wanted to make a drama, do it the first time we arrived in Sharlayan, not after we were in a hurry to save the world.



For real? I don't trust a bunch of teddy bears that say they terraformed the moon. Put someone charismatic but less silly and I'll take it seriously.



No, I'm throwing it in the guy's face, back there, that his writer didn't know how to write the story. I'm not saying "I didn't like it", I'm arguing because it's bad.
Again, they couldn't answer the questions about Hydaelin and Zoldiark, they created holes in the script, and they didn't even get a coherent narrative.
Why it is bad? Simple, because after Zoldiark died, there was no more time for cute bunnies on the moon. The expansion lacked urgency, leaving the "end of the world" story a joke.
In their urgency to make the characters the audience likes more "funny", they made most of them stupid, to the point where Graha, the Crystal Exarch we met in the first, a guy who stops in the middle of catastrophe, to talk about tapestry.
Elpis was irrelevant. If his goal was to build the boss, he didn't fulfill it. If his goal was to answer who Venat is, he did it wrong.



This.
Not only that. It was supposed to end the story, and what I see most in LL, are questions about Hydaelin, Zoldiark, Emet... But the story is already over, why are there still so many doubts?

A story being bad or not is extremely subjective. Yes there are some objective measures, and no story is ever perfect. It is still possible for people to disagree on whether a story is good or not though because of the subjective nature of art and literature. May classic pieces of literature were widely disliked during their time, but now are hailed as masterpieces.

That said you are being willfully obtuse on certain parts of the story which are fully explained in the story. Zodiark did require the sacrifices as in order to enact the kind of things being requested a huge amount of aether was required, so much so that those living had to sacrifice their lives to provide the aether. While Venat knew of what was going to happen there was little she could do, because she'd have to convince the entire convocation, not to mention the populace at large, without a single shred of proof other than her word. Seeing as people today straight up deny science the probability of her succeeding in that is so small it shouldn't be an option.

Hydaelyn's ability to split Zodiark isn't a feat of pure power either. As discussed in the Shadowbringer's MSQ, Hydaelyn's ability is incredibly niche allowing her to split her foe into multiples and reducing their strength by the number of multiples they were split into. She created a total of 14 separate entities, which because Zodiark was the will of the star split Etheirys into the source and 13 shards. This reduced zodiark's power by a factor of 13 making him weak enough for Hydaelyn to contain. As for why she didn't take on Meteion, this is also brought up directly in the MSQ. One, she did make it so Meteion could be tracked. Two, aether and dynamis are opposites. The Ancients, to include Hydaelyn, were too rich in aether to be able to counter dynamis. It is only due to the diluted nature of the sundered's souls that they are able to manipulate dynamis which was a requirement to being able to take on Meteion.

Now I will agree, the time travel thing could have been handled better and they should not have used two different types of time travel theory that stand opposed to one another in the same story. Time paradoxes are annoying to say the least. Not to mention there were indeed some plot holes, but the same can be said of any story. Most stories never answer 100% of the questions readers have. In many case most stories do leave readers with questions and a desire to know more. That's just the way of it. Having questions remaining doesn't make it a bad story, it just means there's a loose thread. Also the scene with Urianger was important character building. It was not drama for drama's sake, it was to help his character move on from the guilt he felt.

[Lauront]

I just love how every times someone says that EW story is bad always asks questions about things that were clearly answered in the MSQ, or asks about things that make no sense.
How can someone ask what is Zordiark or if it is good or bad after EW ?

I mean there's those of us who did pay attention, including to the subsequent LLs and interviews, who still find huge issues with it. This isn't just a problem of not paying attention, even if that is the case with some posters. This is a story driven MMO that prides itself as such. So not quite sure why people are expected to put these issues aside? Some of the points you raise are ones that are made in a very shallow manner by the story. And the fact that it required all that clarification on top, for people who did pay very close attention during SHB for example, is intriguing in and of itself. While this does not shove aside the other issues at all, WoW also suffered from the gradual degeneration of its own lore, as it gave way to ever more ridiculous scenarios. There is and was ample discussion on the EW story here, for example as well as elsewhere on the forum, and I don't think it's an overstatement that it's quite controversial.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

You mean besides when Yoshi P fat shamed someone cosplaying a ninja at a 14 con event? Where he said “Even Ninjas need to work out more and lose weight” or something along those lines. Or how about when finally addressing healer concerns after 6 years, his response was “go play ultimate” basically telling healers to f off. Or how about when he was recently showing off the hrothgar hairs on stream and couldn’t help but laugh at them ?

I feel like you are taking things out of context to try to prove a point.

Would love to see your sources. Pretty sure people who watched that live letter and actually, you know, could understand him said he was laughing at something from chat.

And that ultimate statement was always taken out of context, for maximum outrage.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I feel like you are taking things out of context to try to prove a point.

Would love to see your sources. Pretty sure people who watched that live letter and actually, you know, could understand him said he was laughing at something from chat.

And that ultimate statement was always taken out of context, for maximum outrage.

No it wasn’t taken out of context. If it was taken out of context we would be seeing healer changes, we’ve seen nothing. I mean he was holding up the picture and laughing while saying “pretend the ears are there.” It’s bad form either way, especially when after 3 years your team could only make 6 horrible looking hairstyles, that’s not a time to be laughing. That’s a time to be concerned and start questioning wtf the team is doing. It’s called professionalism. As far as the fat shaming comment goes, it was from 2013/2014 iirc. I’m sure you can look it up.