Current Problem Parallels

[anhaato]

So you don't understand the problems and you don't want to.

[Kenky]

So you don't understand the problems and you don't want to.

If this is directed towards me, I will once again reiterate.

"What do you consider a Mis-step?"

We can go on and on about how "I dont understand the problem" when the problem only exists in your personal view, but it feels rather bittersweet to condemn one without explaining the stance you've taken. Which is why I asked what your stance is. Why you've taken it. I've explained how I see it and outlined the reasons why I have that stance. If you want to be taken seriously, the next step would be to explain your own and why your stance is "better" than mine. Not make a snide quip and act like you're superior.

Unless your intent wasn't a discussion, but an echo-chamber. But then you'd be admitting it.

[anhaato]

If this is directed towards me, I will once again reiterate.

"What do you consider a Mis-step?"

We can go on and on about how "I dont understand the problem" when the problem only exists in your personal view, but it feels rather bittersweet to condemn one without explaining the stance you've taken. Which is why I asked what your stance is. Why you've taken it. I've explained how I see it and outlined the reasons why I have that stance. If you want to be taken seriously, the next step would be to explain your own and why your stance is "better" than mine. Not make a snide quip and act like you're superior.

Unless your intent wasn't a discussion, but an echo-chamber. But then you'd be admitting it.

There's pages upon pages of discussion readily available for you to flip through of people's criticisms of the story, but you seem intent on either not reading it or outright dismissing it as "emotional outrage." It's not my job to explain things in a way that you specifically request. I, and many others of us, have already succinctly laid out our thoughts in numerous threads. There's a 500+ page thread specifically devoted to msq criticism. If you truly wish to find out, take a look at what people are already saying. But, again, you're deriding people's responses as "emotional outrage" which tells me that either you're not interested in finding out, or that nothing will satisfy you unless it's presented in an easily rebuttable manner. Some petty arguments in these threads should not detract from the merit of points made before, or even during, but that's all you seem to care about.

But your misunderstanding of the problems is more than just that of the msq. You're mischaracterizing people's dissatisfaction with job design as being related to balance and numbers, when really most of us are referring to the playstyles. I have yet to see a single person ask for all melees to be doing the same damage as SAM like you allege.

You can't start claiming echo chamber when all you've done is feed your confirmation bias.

[Laphicet]

If this is directed towards me, I will once again reiterate.
"What do you consider a Mis-step?"

>Healers still being 211111111111211111111111 spam machines that are beyond boring to play in 90%+ of content.
>Healer gear still being shit and mostly consisting of frilly and feminine designs rather than having proper variety like other roles. And references to past things being plastered with frills and other feminine aesthetics (See: Judge drace's armor reference in the law order sets).
>Healer complaints not being addressed in spite of a mass volume of them over the course of several years. healers finally get fed up and mass like a specific question and organize to do so in order to get an answer in a QnA, only for the director to tell them to "fuck off and go play ultimate if you don't like 1-button spam", although worded much more politely.
>Story being full of a ton of inconsistencies (most relating to the stupid time travel stuff and Venat acting out of character by abandoning her people so hastily and not helping them in the days leading up to the apocalypse) and having a shitty power-of-friendship ending that didn't feel earned and has been told far better in prior RPGs, even in prior games in the FF series and related spinoffs itself.
>final arc of the story constantly beating "NIHILISM BAAAAAAD" into your skull over and over with the subtlety of a wrecking ball.
>Scions don't go through much if any suffering through the story and have basically no development in spite of the stakes of the story. The fake-out sacrifices at the end only add to the frustration here.
>Significant lack of combat in the MSQ compared to prior expansions and a downgrade of challenge in the fights that do exist. Game feels more like a visual novel at this point. And 6.1 keeps up that trend.
>Increasing amount of slice-of-life moments in the story that seem and feel quite out of place to many players, including myself. 6.1 also keeps up these trends.
>Story is very black and white with its treatment of the ancients and the treatment of zodiark in the story and in-universe lore book, a strange backtracking on Shadowbringers' take on things.
>Summoner drastically gutted and simplified down to toddler-tier complexity. resulting in a very divisive reception to the job and alienating a ton of former summoner mains who now had no parallel job to move to since there was nothing quite like old SMN.
>Reaper (bottom text). In all seriousness reaper was very VERY broken on launch and caused a lot of balance concerns.
>Samurai's kaiten removal and potency flattening is the most hated job change in the game's history and still has not been addressed by the dev team since 6.1. (if only people stood up for healer mains when they were complaining about simplification and maybe we wouldn't be in this situation).
>Massive re-use of old gear designs, lack of new gear designs, reused gearsets aren't even role-swapped so healers continue to get stuck with shitty white robes and frilly outfits.
>Side content stories also receive middling and mixed reception. Many players upset that devs went back on their promise of role quests being a temporary thing for shadowbringers.
>AST lore massively fucked over with new story information about 99% of stars being dead thanks to depresso birb. And new alliance raid fucking with the lore of the heavens and contradicting the seventh heaven causing death upon entry.
>Machinist not iterated on despite all the people promising "OOOH IT'S A TORN-DOWN BASE TO BE ADDED TOO", also see Dark Knight.
>Music in Laybrinthos being changed to a static 40s loop for a good chunk of the MSQ.
>PVP balance being all kinds of fucked and then Yoshi-P over buffing his main and then making a blogpost to cover his ass.

And that's just stuff off of the top of my head.

[Midareyukki]

>And that's just stuff off of the top of my head.

I'll be that guy and add

> Them not realizing that the Asmongold wave was going to cause such an influx of players. They had to suspend sales and stop the trial to deal with the influx, yet they still went on with releasing Endwalker as it was with the server systems they had? With no prior attempt to try and meet the demand?
> The last-second delay of Endwalker's launch, which caused a lot of uproar. For apparently cosmetic purposes and not to deal with anything technical. For a lot of people it was the last good-faith card, and weren't willing to deal any further.
> They still had severe server influx; people waited entire hours just to enter the game. The fact that they then blamed the players instead of looking into their own servers and the affluence was just dumb. We get it: Covid was going on and every industry was borked. But as stated before, you could see this coming a mile away, and you still went with it, so why are you blaming us?
> Hrothgars being told they'd get stuff in Endwalker. Waited for 6.1 for us to be told at the last Live Letter that the hairstyles were rush-picked, with them going for what's easily considered the absolute worst ones. On April 1st no less.
> Them thinking that people would like those hairstyles and "being upset" that we didn't. Disconnect much?
> Them releasing the patch notes and people realizing that Jandelaine was still not changing our hairstyles, making a lot of players worry we'd still have to buy a fantasia to change hairstyles. Also the fact that for 3 years they didn't even acknowledge we needed fantasia to change hairstyles.
> People realising that all Jandelaine actually did was change your head to another one so that you changed hairstyles. This is just obvious "last minute, we didn't have time to decouple the hair from the head" it's painful.
> People finding that to do the hairstyles required them to shrink Hrothgar heads. They didn't fix the hairstyles like they would on Miqo'te vs Hyur hairs, no, they changed our heads just to fit the hairstyle.
> And that's not even getting into how the new hairstyles remove our ears. Allegedly because "It's hard" (it's not, modders proved as much in mere hours and have been for the past 3 years) and that things would clip (Endsinger EX itself's hair clips through its own locks).
> Twice did they tell us "it's hard", but people were quicker to prove them wrong and find out even worse things they've done to "fit".
At this point, this isn't content you're making for Hrothgar. You're not giving us anything. You're literally just last-seconding your way through your own game.
> (added) Character Portraits! A menu that says "beta" but very much feels like an "Alpha".
> The PvP Balance issue isn't even the worst of it, the fact that WHM has a gameplay bug that makes it so you can reset Cure 2 charges on a whim went completely under their radar
> HOUSING. HOW.

[Lauront]

> The last-second delay of Endwalker's launch, which caused a lot of uproar. For apparently cosmetic purposes and not to deal with anything technical. For a lot of people it was the last good-faith card, and weren't willing to deal any further.

Even worse, it seems like they wanted to do it to clear up stuff relating to the story by the sounds of it - direct link here.

Increasing amount of slice-of-life moments in the story that seem and feel quite out of place to many players, including myself. 6.1 also keeps up these trends.

It seems like they woobified Y'shtola too much even for Yoshi.

Excellent summary of points.

[Syrri]

Hey guys, game is fine, no changes needed. Yoshi-P keep on keeping on.

If you don't like it cry/quit/runback2wow/leave YOSHI-P ALONE

Where's my island sanctuary?

[EagleDynamics]

Hey guys, game is fine, no changes needed. Yoshi-P keep on keeping on.

If you don't like it cry/quit/runback2wow/leave YOSHI-P ALONE

Where's my island sanctuary?

lol i cant tell if this is sarcasm or not.

[Kenky]

So you're asking me to flip through 500+ pages of another thread to get my answer and scroll through an alarming amount of people being hostile and toxic to each other.. When you could've just explained it in blunt terms in half the time and with much less of a headache? This thread alone, simply by looking at the last few pages turn from actual conversation and discussion into just attacking each other.

And no, it's not a misunderstanding. The OP pointed out Job Imbalance. Using "imbalance" instead of "design" alludes to their effectiveness in actual gameplay. Its skills and capabilities. Hence the stance. But here you are, changing the word to "design" and acting as if that was the original conversation when it wasn't. I'm not "mischaracterizing", I'm responding to the OP.

When I ask in a polite manner "Why do you feel this way" it's usually met with being told why. Not "go read it elsewhere." I will admit, not a fan of the attitude. But I suppose if you have posted it plenty of times in the past, it's only logical to say "go here" instead of posting it yet another time. But your assumption that people (me specifically) would look through other threads to get one statement that could be taken out of context (or the context outright unknown, due to posts prior to it) is kind of off-putting.

And lastly, I'm not asking you to explain it in a way that's easily rebuttable. I'm simply asking you to state your case. How you state it is entirely up to you and if you think it's not a good enough case, thats a you problem. And yes, actually. I can claim "echo chamber". People have done it before and merely mentioning the fact that it could potentially BE an Echo-chamber should make people either realize, or look back and reflect. To make sure that it's actually a discussion. Not just an army of Yes-men.

I'm not here to start a fight, bud. I'm trying to spark discussion and get it back onto the topic at hand. Or would you prefer going back to hating on the Lalafells?

[anhaato]

So you're asking me to flip through 500+ pages of another thread to get my answer and scroll through an alarming amount of people being hostile and toxic to each other.. When you could've just explained it in blunt terms in half the time and with much less of a headache? This thread alone, simply by looking at the last few pages turn from actual conversation and discussion into just attacking each other.

Sure am. Listen, the topic of msq criticism is a lot deeper than can be summed up into a singular post. You'll get a much better understanding of why people dislike it if you take a look at the discourse that surrounds it. And once again I urge you to look past the petty squabbles because there ARE good points in there. Once again, you seem eager to discard criticism because it's not in a form you deem acceptable.

And no, it's not a misunderstanding. The OP pointed out Job Imbalance. Using "imbalance" instead of "design" alludes to their effectiveness in actual gameplay. Its skills and capabilities. Hence the stance. But here you are, changing the word to "design" and acting as if that was the original conversation when it wasn't. I'm not "mischaracterizing", I'm responding to the OP.

If it's about what op specifically was saying, they made it clear they were referring to pvp. That's a much different topic than that in which you would discuss the difference in dps numbers; numerous jobs in pvp are beyond overtuned with how they can completely disable numbers of people with status effects and demolish them with damage. But as far as pve goes, you'll find the general consensus to be based around playstyle. That's why there's so many threads complaining about healers.

When I ask in a polite manner "Why do you feel this way" it's usually met with being told why. Not "go read it elsewhere." I will admit, not a fan of the attitude. But I suppose if you have posted it plenty of times in the past, it's only logical to say "go here" instead of posting it yet another time. But your assumption that people (me specifically) would look through other threads to get one statement that could be taken out of context (or the context outright unknown, due to posts prior to it) is kind of off-putting.

It's not realistic to expect that regarding a subject that's as complicated for people as the msq is. It can't be easily summed up in a single post without being severely abridged and a poor representation of what's trying to be said.

And lastly, I'm not asking you to explain it in a way that's easily rebuttable. I'm simply asking you to state your case. How you state it is entirely up to you and if you think it's not a good enough case, thats a you problem. And yes, actually. I can claim "echo chamber". People have done it before and merely mentioning the fact that it could potentially BE an Echo-chamber should make people either realize, or look back and reflect. To make sure that it's actually a discussion. Not just an army of Yes-men.

We're not on trial, no one is obligated to do that for you. I'm telling you that you're better off finding out by peering through other threads, including this one where there's been a certain degree of discourse already. You can even see it starting on the very first page of the thread. The fact that you won't look through even this one is telling me that you're unwilling to read and learn, and prefer to lean back onto complaints that people are fighting. Even if people are fighting over it and being immature, they're still expressing their opinions.