Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

[Xuled]

Cause they know deep down without the insanely strict TOS they’d be vote kicked out of many, MANY more groups. Can’t cut the mustard, don’t join.

[Midareyukki]

God forbid when you suggest they should make content just a little bit more difficult, you get people that flip out.

Every casual that sees this behave as if their whole world is crumbling and they take that statement and exaggerate it reading it like: "All content needs to be Extreme/Savage Difficulty! Screw all the Casuals! Cater to the small minority! HOO-RAH!"

I mean, just chill. There is just no in between with these people, they just think there is only braindead easy and elite hardcore difficult, nothing in the middle. Dungeons are braindead easy you can clear it with just using your 1-2-3 buttons and a healbot, sure it will take longer but it is still possible.

"Nawt Mah Final Fantasy: Second Life Gaem!"

My garbage filthy casul take is:

- Thordan was really bad. Thordan EX was great.
- Shinryu was amazing. Shinryu EX was even better. People complained it was too hard for casual players, but it honestly just tested to see if you knew mechanics by now.
- Hades was amazing as well. Hades EX was a bit boring but still good. I didn't see people complain, and I think at this point the dev team had faith in people being able to recognize mechanics and animation tells.
- Endsinger was just bull, Endsinger EX is even worse. The meteors are finnicky as all hell, the timing is too strict and the damage is punishing. I'm sorry for not having fast reflexes to awkward "mechanics", but this thing isn't hard. It's just bull.

The other fights were actually challenging for casual-level players. Endsinger is just fake difficulty because it relies on you having fast reflexes. Not everyone is that quick to process what's going on or judge the limits of an AoE.

It's not that it's hard. Because I understand the mechanic. And I can execute it, most people can. I just don't like it because I'm slow and it requires me to have dumb reflexes and I'm just not the sort of guy to want that sort of impulse. I like mechanical difficulty in other ways, I've played some savage tiers on-content and I enjoyed them. Endsinger is just not fun.

The Omega Raids were fun. The Eden raids teetered on "fun" and "exhausting". Even the current tier only has one fight I don't enjoy, and that's because I'm colourblind, so orange on orange on red on orange isn't particularly indicative for me. But Endsinger? I just can't deal with it.

[Nav_Fae]

. I just don't like it because I'm slow and it requires me to have dumb reflexes and I'm just not the sort of guy to want that sort of impulse. I like mechanical difficulty in other ways, I've played some savage tiers on-content and I enjoyed them. Endsinger is just not fun.

[Midareyukki]

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idk if we can insert gifs here, but you know the Zootopia sloth meme? That's me.

And even with that sort of reflexes, I can do Savages, Extremes, even Zenos Final just fine.

Endsinger can go suck on a big fat taco for all I care.

[Ronduwil]

The problem is that it all boils down to: Too Easy or Too Hard

There is no in between.

That's because you've been playing so long that the in-between is second nature to you. Your perspective on this is completely skewed. The "too hard" for you consists of novel mechanics that you haven't seen for the past 90 levels. By your standard, the entire game past level 50 is "too hard" for new players. With practice, it gradually becomes "in-between," and then eventually it'll become "too easy." That's how it should be, and that's the mark of a properly designed game. What doesn't make sense is for a long-time vet who has mastered the mechanics to insist that they retroactively ratchet up the difficulty on all the content that they mastered long ago so that they can feel a sense of challenge again in content that they've already done hundreds of times and is now completely optional for them.

Many of the posters on these forums are long-time players who have the same skewed perspective that you do, and I'm sure they're going to upvote you. Don't delude yourself into thinking that tens or hundreds of upvotes on a game's forums is in any way a representation of how well your suggestion would be taken by the millions of players who are subbed to this game. Most of the players whose content you're proposing to ruin will never even browse to this page, let alone post on it.

[Kazelus]

My garbage filthy casul take is:

- Thordan was really bad. Thordan EX was great.
- Shinryu was amazing. Shinryu EX was even better. People complained it was too hard for casual players, but it honestly just tested to see if you knew mechanics by now.
- Hades was amazing as well. Hades EX was a bit boring but still good. I didn't see people complain, and I think at this point the dev team had faith in people being able to recognize mechanics and animation tells.
- Endsinger was just bull, Endsinger EX is even worse. The meteors are finnicky as all hell, the timing is too strict and the damage is punishing. I'm sorry for not having fast reflexes to awkward "mechanics", but this thing isn't hard. It's just bull.

The other fights were actually challenging for casual-level players. Endsinger is just fake difficulty because it relies on you having fast reflexes. Not everyone is that quick to process what's going on or judge the limits of an AoE.

It's not that it's hard. Because I understand the mechanic. And I can execute it, most people can. I just don't like it because I'm slow and it requires me to have dumb reflexes and I'm just not the sort of guy to want that sort of impulse. I like mechanical difficulty in other ways, I've played some savage tiers on-content and I enjoyed them. Endsinger is just not fun.

The Omega Raids were fun. The Eden raids teetered on "fun" and "exhausting". Even the current tier only has one fight I don't enjoy, and that's because I'm colourblind, so orange on orange on red on orange isn't particularly indicative for me. But Endsinger? I just can't deal with it.

The things with Endsinger and Endsinger EX are first: Where's the good and unique musics in the fight (essentially the EX but even the normal have less time for the FIGHT UNIQUE MUSIC) ?, second: the whole planet mechs is just annoying, not difficult, just annoying, if the red weren't instadeath on EX, people would simply ignore it..., third: The EX have less phase than normal ? How is that suppose to please the playerbase ? Wasn't the wandering Minstrel suppose to imagine the fight if Meteion have found ONE more dead civilization so why do we have less phase ? Shinryu and Hades had special phase for ex, that's just disappointing...

I would had that, Zordiark EX without the instadeath on the meteor have story difficulty(That fight is a joke.).

That's because you've been playing so long that the in-between is second nature to you. Your perspective on this is completely skewed. The "too hard" for you consists of novel mechanics that you haven't seen for the past 90 levels. By your standard, the entire game past level 50 is "too hard" for new players. With practice, it gradually becomes "in-between," and then eventually it'll become "too easy." That's how it should be, and that's the mark of a properly designed game. What doesn't make sense is for a long-time vet who has mastered the mechanics to insist that they retroactively ratchet up the difficulty on all the content that they mastered long ago so that they can feel a sense of challenge again in content that they've already done hundreds of times and is now completely optional for them.

Many of the posters on these forums are long-time players who have the same skewed perspective that you do, and I'm sure they're going to upvote you. Don't delude yourself into thinking that tens or hundreds of upvotes on a game's forums is in any way a representation of how well your suggestion would be taken by the millions of players who are subbed to this game. Most of the players whose content you're proposing to ruin will never even browse to this page, let alone post on it.

I assume you would be surprised if the devs would make ARR dungeon back to their originals difficulty. Most players today would be unable to clear Sastasha if it was still the same as the release... And Copperbell mine's was even harder back in the day. You weren't waiting for spriggans to spawn cause you one shotted them in the first boss(the one before 6.1.), they needed 10gcds to die, eachs one of them.

The game is not "too hard" after 50, it's just players that refuse to learn. I once had to deal with a tank that wouldn't mitigate and walk in AoE on Bardam trashs mobs... It was a pain and when he died, he blamed me for my healing instead of thinking about the way he played. (And he was a bit understuff. Not even Shire jewels just the primals one.)

[Silvarer]

This player is referring to a particular website that utilizes logs created from a third-party tool. They are also contributory to a large part of the reasons why a lot of 'casual' players are toxic, and equally why certain topics are always met with significant ire.

Lol, I actually completely forgot about that site even though I’ve been there myself before. Thanks for the correction there.

[Ronduwil]

I think the answer is to make the MSQ optional so those who can't be bothered sleepwalking through MSQ-difficulty content can just press a button and unlock the optional non-MSQ-difficulty content immediately.

The MSQ is designed specifically for new players. The MSQ roulette is designed to encourage old players to help new players. It was never intended to provide a challenge. The only reason you sleepwalked through the MSQ was that the seven other players in your group had been doing it day in and day out. They've already revamped the MSQ in such a way that no one is sleepwalking through it. The mechanics are telegraphed and easy to manage for players like me, but I see new players eating attacks left and right all the time.

You're completely ignoring is that fact that this entire game is optional. Following the Blizzard philosophy of taking away casual content bit by bit until the game is left with nothing but hardcore content is a great way to kill the game's momentum and drive players away to other games.

[Ronduwil]

I assume you would be surprised if the devs would make ARR dungeon back to their originals difficulty. Most players today would be unable to clear Sastasha if it was still the same as the release... And Copperbell mine's was even harder back in the day.

This is completely consistent with the point I was making. Mechanics in those dungeons were completely novel to everyone at that point because everyone was new. I don't agree that most players today would be unable to clear Satasha. They might struggle with it their first few times, but after running it a couple of times a week through the roulette, they would adapt, learn and maybe eventually go on to flex on the forums and complain that Satasha is too easy for anyone with half a braincell because 3/4 of the party knows all the mechanics like the back of their hand.

I still see people dying in the leveling roulette all the time. It's not because they're trash, stupid, or lazy players. It's because they don't have enough experience with the mechanics that are killing them. Once you've experienced a given mechanic enough, you don't even think about it anymore. You see the tell and instinctively move. At that point it seems easy, and you eventually forget the times you died to it when you were starting out.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

I really struggle with a lot of the "easy" mechanics some of the group content has to offer. Its quite frustrating. Ive been gaming sucesfully for decades, finished all the souls games except Elden Ring (yet) so it's not like Im an idiot, or lazy or slow but I dont seem to get a lot of the mechanics that other players do in higher level content. I am fast, and if I see something coming I can dodge it all day long. But by the time I figure out the tell for a mechanic, it seems I dont get that particular dungeon again for ages, and by then Ive forgotten whats even happening and have to start all over again.

So yes, anything outside of Ex, Savage, or Ultimate being too difficult, can certainly feel like the end of the world and unnecessary. When Yoshi P says that if you want harder content, go play Ultimate, I agree with him.