Yoshi's Comment on Future Job Design - Are Jobs

[Tranquilmelody7]

I'd say job design is by far the biggest concern the game has at the moment, to the point where I would genuinely consider the current state of affairs a crisis.

[Kolsykol]

I think it's entirely possible 7.0 will come with some pretty huge overhauls.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if if the base combo gameplay will change.

I really don't agree that they '' play the same '' as some people are saying here tho...
Do you lot actually play them for realsies?
I play all of the melee, tanks included.
And they definitely don't play the same... They all have a 123 combo so you could say that they have the same base inherent loop.
But to say that SAM, MNK or NIN play the same for example is just absurd they're very different.
Same with PLD or GNB.
PLD, WAR and DRK do have a sort of spam 1 1 1 1 phase tho but they're still fairly different, DRK with their ogcd's, WAR being more simple 1 1 1 1 but with crits and PLD with magic and the more strict looped gameplay.

BLM and RDM are also totally different etc etc.
The physical ranged are also very different from one another.
I think Healers have the biggest issue with this really.

[VentVanitas]

I'd consider it the only major concern for the game as well. The direction it is going in simply has me worried about the longevity of PvE gameplay.

We have precedent (not just for SAM and NIN mind you) that anything generally liked about your job can be removed for whatever reason the development team sees fit. Why like anything about your job if it can be removed for literally any reason? Why learn anything about your job if SE can decide to suddenly rework it and change the target audience for said job? Why get excited for future skills if it means losing something in turn? Why are we wasting our time providing feedback?

[Kleeya]

In case some people forgot it, we did on this forum (and still continue to) go through years of players constantly complaining of the slightest difference between jobs. Using parsers, logs, calculators, spreadsheets, etc, to point that this job having 0,16% less damage than the other is bad, very bad, same for this one having 0,25% less mitigation. People writing whole essays, typing hundreds of posts, to say that anything different than the other jobs must be fixed, the best example for that being imo DRK's living dead (yes, being killed by it was a downside, but at least it was DIFFERENT). I even remember someone complaining that the PLD gauge being filled by auto-attacks, unlike other tanks, was not right and should be changed.

People analysing the game to such an extent are not casuals. The actual state of the jobs is the result of way too much invested players who did go so far in asking for everything being perfectly balanced, that now everything feels more and more the same.

Surely you are not gonna complain that a company is listening to what their customers want ? XD

[Visanis]

Because it is what most players demand.


Cheers

Who are these "most players"? Where is this poll or survey or whatever way they express themselves to tell the Devs to butcher the shit out of the game and any diversity there is?

Are they next to the big bad boogie man raider?

[Dzian]

Job identity loss in FFXIV IMO is a result of the game pretty much abandoning the RPG part of MMORPG.

Generally in RPGs all enemies aren't made equal. Enemy types would have different elemental weaknesses/resistances/immunities/absorption. Different resistances to physical damage whether it was all physical damage or just specific types like piercing, slashing, bludgeoning, etc... This at its core would make certain characters/classes/builds excel against some things but fall behind against others. RPGs would also promote horizontal progression options via gear in the form of set bonuses, added effects, skill bonuses, skill augmentations, etc...

FFXIV has gone the route of removing all build diversity and replacing it powercreep making raw stat numbers bigger while trying to make it so every job within a role type has the same tool kit.

thats funny, not only becuase there's a lot of truth in it. but because many would say they've abandoned the MMO part of MMORPG to... with this massive push towards single player...

so if they've abandoned MMO, and they've abandoned RPG,, what the hell is this??

[Imoye]

Because it is what most players demand.


Cheers

Nice claim. From where do you have the data to support this claim?

As far as I'm concerned, this is the direction the devs themselves have chosen.

[Larirawiel]

Who are these "most players"? Where is this poll or survey or whatever way they express themselves to tell the Devs to butcher the shit out of the game and any diversity there is?

Are they next to the big bad boogie man raider?

Look in the job forums. You will find many threads like: the b-barses show that if boss X spawns some adds and there is a bard in the group and my ping is at 34 ms and outside of my flat the sun shines and the Venus, Mars and Jupiter form a line then MY job makes 0,24% less DPS than job Y. And this proves that MY job is unplayable since patch 5732.4. Yoshi-P please fix it now!

And they "fixed" it by erasing literary every difference between the jobs, reducing them to rotations.


Cheers

[Shurrikhan]

Look in the job forums. You will find many threads like: the b-barses show that if boss X spawns some adds and there is a bard in the group and my ping is at 34 ms and outside of my flat the sun shines and the Venus, Mars and Jupiter form a line then MY job makes 0,24% less DPS than job Y. And this proves that MY job is unplayable since patch 5732.4. Yoshi-P please fix it now!

Is this supposed to a hyperbolic example... of hyperbole?

The smallest imbalance I tend to see complaint specifically about is when a utility-less job gives multiple percent less rDPS than a more utility-heavy one, even at the 95th percentile or so.

More common issues brought up:

• Why is my 'on-demand' mitigation uniquely bypassed by any and all critical hits or negated by hard CC, given that they otherwise fill the exact same purpose and only TBN is remotely unique among them?
• Why is my job designed in such a way that boss jump downtime penalizes it twice as much as any other?
• Why was my job's gameplay drastically worsened and its performance cut by almost 2% for changes no one asked for?
• Why does my healer uniquely have MP issues not faced by the other healers (atop having the least rDPS and utility?)
• Why does my kit uniquely have almost so little to do, even compared to others in the same role?
• Why is my kit largely a skin-swapped Warrior just with more oGCD casts and a fifteenth its sustain? (Slightly exaggerative.)

[dapperfaffer]

Not to say that parsers are bad...but, if there wasn't a parser you wouldn't know any of that information. And all of those complaints would be reduced to 3 specific ones that only stand out because of design inequality, which is oddly enough an argument for homogonization.