Kaiten removed? What is going on?

[VladdThunderstruck]

They could have kept Kaiten, but have it do absolutely NOTHING outside of that flourish animation and it would STILL be better than outright removing it, I have no idea what they were thinking, nor why they thought this would go over well with both casual and hardcore Samurai players.

Not only that, but it's a terrible omen for the way job design is going. As people have said as nauseum; dumbing down jobs is going to be pretty bad for long term growth when there is absolutely no skill ceiling to aspire to. I get that it's to help the influx of new players getting used to their job, but how does that help them? Casual players still want to aspire to be better. Hell, just a year ago I WAS a new player, and picking up a job like SAM just made me want to be better. It's hard to understand the "Just go play Ultimate" argument when I, myself have done an Ultimate before. You know what DPS do for Ultimate fights? Do damage. That's it. They don't have to worry about healing, holding boss aggro or boss positioning. We do damage, and that is our only job. We have to do mechanics, but so does everyone else. The ONLY thing that is engaging for DPS players is the job design itself and it really doesn't feel like the devs have realized this. Samurai was FINE the way it was a patch ago. Like, what? What is going on? Just give me Kaiten back and I'll shut up forever.

[CelestiCer]

Kaiten removed? What is going on? (snip)

Unfortunately, Welcome to the forums.

Many of us Samurai's never even set foot here until these horrible changes to our beloved Job. You're one of many, myself included who came here out of frustration to voice their concern and opinion on what many of consider to be a huge mess up from Square regarding gameplay enjoyment.

Looking passed the trolls, there are genuine SAM mains/players doing high-end content that see Kaiten removal and the direction they take as a positive. The only positives I can get out of these changes are less RNG parsing and DSR Ultimate having a unique mechanic requiring accurate damage output to not cause a wipe and lastly, another nuisance of a hurdle removed for parsers to get from 98 to 99 or a 100 parse easier.

Flawed arguments because I don't see how Kaiten removal was necessary to solve this. As for damage variance of which Kaiten could have been unrelated to, rebalancing Samurai's DPS variance purely for DSR Ultimate around 1 specific mechanic... well then why not remove all Damage variance at that point of any job? Balancing every job around 1 specific mechanic seems very restrictive, but what do I know? I just enjoy Kaiten, how dare I. And as for parsing? I mean idk what that solves for FFXIV. Maybe for FFLogs, but I don't play FFLogs to know any about this.

As for the argument of " Just go play Ultimate ", there's a difference enjoying mastering Job difficulty at a certain degree a player sets? Versus which content you take your a job to play with and then play it perfectly there. It's a vastly different way of enjoying the game.

Kaiten removal didn't do anything to fix anything, and they replaced Kaiten removal with potencies and Auto-Crits of which changes I am fairly sure no one asked for at the time nor does it do anything for our job's gameplay it's just damage numbers. And the damage variance argument is flawed to support Kaiten removal, since I can't recall damage variance being such a big issue prior to Endwalker to clear any content to validate any of it.

[ildranor]

kaiten removal so dumb. i legit cant think of any reason for the change

reasons for kaiten to exist
- cool animation
- big numbers / dopamine hits
- some kenki mangement

reason for kaiten removal
- job more braindead for casuals
- less apm ( jk just press shinten instead )
- button bloat ( jk so many better ways to remove buttons )


2 of the reasons giving for removal are just bad reasons, making the job easier imo is also bad but maybe you can make some arguament for accesablility etc.

i just want kaiten back. crittting 25k on midare feels weak.

[RyuuZero]

I also want the devs to Bring Back Kaiten, almost all 6.1 changes for Samurai made the Job worse, I have Samurai Exclusive Alts that I cannot play because of the Kaiten Removal, due to the compromised enjoyability.. but at least Enpi doesn't eat Meikyo Shisui.. that's something... though true, alot of Player are unhappy with FFXIV and if the devs do not listen to our voices maybe One Day People will pass on FFXIV because it has become a braindead baby game, I do not want that to happen but that's the direction we are heading.
Tanks lost DPS Stances, Healer's lost Cleric Stance (which was a Cool Down, funnily enough) FFXIV lost it's DoT Mage DPS and will we ever have a DoT DPS again?
but at this Point, I just want Kaiten Back.

EDIT: I do not buy that the Samurai suffers Button Bloat at all!

[Ransu]

Pretty much every sam main has hated the change. The balance discord was in complete uproar over it.

[Ceridwen]

I know they have a lot going on... But please, please address this! It is NOT getting better.

[M_Red]

This has been an issue with SAM players since day 1 of patch 6.1. Personally I barely even see anyone playing a SAM anymore because of the changes, and I used to main it until the change. Now it just does overall less damage than before.

Some say it’s only a 3% decrease, but the numbers I see say differently, even with auto crits.

The main issue is that they decreased the power of the finishers far too much, to where they barely do half the damage as before, when comparing the crits of the two. Not to mention the gauge is now used to spam one single or two attacks, depending on if you’re attacking multiple enemies or not.

Personally, I say switch to another class and don’t play it. Let those numbers tell the devs we hate it and continue to say our hate for the change here. I switched to Reaper and Monk, with Reaper being the strongest for me (ironically Reaper for me did far more damage than the new Samurai build did by a large amount. Even taking in the slower attacks, it does far more damage even with not as good gear on it at the time).

[AluneTempest]

SE need to understand that casual players dont care about damage numbers and damage fluctuation, they care about have fun playing the game, and they just kill the fun of the job.

I'm a casual player rn, and my first melee job at 80 is SAM and i keep saying to my raiders friends that at some point im gonna want to raid and SAM will be my choosen job to do that. Now i leave my SAM at lvl 80 and im gearing other DPS jobs to start my savages, because for me now SAM is the most boring job of the game and i dont have any fun with my new, super and extremely innovator gameplay called SHINTEN SPAM.

[LeonKeyh]

OP just came out of a coma; Wait until he hears about Summoner....

/s



Really though, it was a stupid change that barely touches action bloat (i.e. button presses) and is probably the 10th or 11th thing that should be done to clean up hotbars.

I feel like there's an overall push that we're slowly seeing to pull back damage ranges as much as possible and THAT is the main reason for the change. I expect that they're going to pick a potency value, e.g. 700 and any attacks that are that potency or higher are going to autocrit. Kaiten was really just a way to punish bad Kenki management (Not saying that there's anything wrong with that, Kaiten was fun as hell) and increases the possible damage range for Midare/Hig.

[Ransu]

This has been an issue with SAM players since day 1 of patch 6.1. Personally I barely even see anyone playing a SAM anymore because of the changes, and I used to main it until the change. Now it just does overall less damage than before.

Some say it’s only a 3% decrease, but the numbers I see say differently, even with auto crits.

The main issue is that they decreased the power of the finishers far too much, to where they barely do half the damage as before, when comparing the crits of the two. Not to mention the gauge is now used to spam one single or two attacks, depending on if you’re attacking multiple enemies or not.

Personally, I say switch to another class and don’t play it. Let those numbers tell the devs we hate it and continue to say our hate for the change here. I switched to Reaper and Monk, with Reaper being the strongest for me (ironically Reaper for me did far more damage than the new Samurai build did by a large amount. Even taking in the slower attacks, it does far more damage even with not as good gear on it at the time).

Its roughly 3% from the old potential max. The main difference now is its significantly more consistent which I can't complain about....that said, the dopamine from the build up of kaiten into a big 60k crit is completely gone =/. between that, the awkward flow before iajutus and that fact that kenki may as well not even exist since its just turned into a shinten spam.....Ya sam just isn't enjoyable anymore.