Why IS the savage lockout system the way it is?

[Dzian]

It is perfectly possible to clear any content in the game without a static, all the way up to Ultimates, if people are willing to put in the effort. There are entire communities dedicated to running Savage and Ultimate content without the need for a group with set raid times and members. Is it more difficult than with a static, less reliable and will require more time? Probably, but it is not the barrier some people claim it to be. It's perfectly fair if someone finds it too much effort and therefore decide not to do it, but anyone pretending that not having a static is somehow an unsurmountable barrier to clearing content and getting loot from it is deluding themselves.

This goes in line with my earlier comment. The most difficult thing in the game isnt the content it's finding people..

It's the nasty attitude towards party finders and raid finders and all that stuff...

You look on the jp side and quite a number of people have cleared various ultimates in pugs groups and clear savages frequently with the raid finder.. On the na side though... thats borderline impossible just because of the na community.

Noone uses the raid finder on na because its notorious for being a trap.

So no it's not dillusional at all to say content can't be done without a static group at least not reliably... party finder "farm" groups can't even clear an ex trial half the time let alone farm it... hence wide the party finder is seen as such a gamble. And everyone drops and abandons so quickly because there's so many "trap" groups.

All of this is kinda beside the point though.. point being that if the game let players play together and help friends, fc memebers and the like. Participation in higher content would be higher because players would naturally be more comfortable playing around people they are familiar with. Especially when the alternative is the party finder and all the crap that comes with it...

[Colt47]

The solution they came up with for the chest scenario was making an option in the PF drop down to set a restriction for 2 chest only. The thing is that the way they are doing the lockout impacts everyone, not just statics. Going in to do more practice runs or because someone finds the content fun shouldn't penalize those who have not gotten a reward yet. It doesn't even matter if someone uses the RF in Japan or the PF system in the US, the result is the same.

[JanVanding]

Half correct.

It's so that people don't blow through the new content within the first couple of weeks and cry later that there's nothing else to do. Its meant to stretch the content, I doubt the majority of people base their sub on savage gear alone. I'd apply the word predatory to the housing system we have though.

The problem with the Stretch is that they go to a point where it goes on too long, late comers wait for the lock to come off, early adopters are burned out and bored.

Honestly, 5-6 months is way too long for a lockout and I feel it the lock should come off a little sooner and the echo added when they planned to remove the lock originally.

They should look at taking the lock off at 4 months in, echo activated at 6 months in, strikes a better balance that way.

[Colt47]

The problem with the Stretch is that they go to a point where it goes on too long, late comers wait for the lock to come off, early adopters are burned out and bored.

Honestly, 5-6 months is way too long for a lockout and I feel it the lock should come off a little sooner and the echo added when they planned to remove the lock originally.

They should look at taking the lock off at 4 months in, echo activated at 6 months in, strikes a better balance that way.

After playing through savage and running a static, it became apparent why the PF actually ended up the way it is in the USA. The thing is people are going to get penalized for being benevolent to others because that is how the system was setup. People who play have different goals and time availability, and sometimes a player cannot get a static that fits his or her goals perfectly right away. If that person likes the people who they played with and wants to keep doing content with them, but also wants to fulfill their own goal of progression and joins another static with a raid schedule that doesn't conflict, why should their actions punish others?

The fight design doesn't even allow for the same kind of clear selling that existed in WoW and some other MMOs, either. Mechanics like Light Rampant would wipe the group if so much as one person flubbed, and the same happens on p4s with the curtain call and pinax. That's why I'm looking around for anything official on this choice for the raid lockout because it would not take much to change it, and so far the only thing they did was add a two chest clear option on the PF, which doesn't really do anything.

[Colt47]

which specific component of savage loot rules do you want to know the reasoning for? There are a number of components and each has rational behind it...

Specifically behind the choice with the way they handled one person clearing impacting everyone else in the group. It sounds great on paper and if someone is following ye-old MMORPG rationale it seems like it makes sense, but it does cause a lot of problems in terms of social structure. In NA the only way to really prog effectively in savage is to run with a group of people and when folks group together, they build relationships with those that they run with. However, people also have goals that they want to achieve and sometimes those goals do not align with the group they are with. This problem is easily handled if someone isn't a raid lead, but if the person in question is a raid lead and has responsibility on their shoulders that is where it becomes ideal to keep supporting that group while seeking another to meet those goals.

The current system makes taking on more responsibility in management a dangerous gamble and given that a single character can run every job, it discourages the kind of thing that most other MMOs have to deal with. E.g. World of Warcraft has to literally lock people out of going into an instance after clearing to prevent alt gear farming. In this game someone could technically do that under a personal lockout system, but it'd be strange.

Edit: Actually WoW moved to a loot based lockout on most content even with their focus on hardcore.

[dspguy]

A lot of the loot system for savage is just to keep subs up and to keep people doing content. Those players that are late to the raiding scene (even by a week) would be left out entirely since if they didn't already have the clear, they would never get into a farm party.

Incoming unpopular opinion:
The moment a player clears a raid tier, they should stop the gear grind. They don't need it. The concept of BiS is plain silly. If you just beat the hardest enemy the game has to offer at that time, why pursue BiS at that point? There is nothing to use that new gear on. And... by the time a new "hardest enemy" is out there, new gear comes out anyway. On top of that, you can get gear 10 iLvl higher than the previous raid gear on Day 1.

[Ivtrix]

it honestly unlocks way too late

there should be 0 loot restrictions come 6.1

16 weeks or so is plenty time to clear the tier

[VerdeLuck]

Incoming unpopular opinion:
The moment a player clears a raid tier, they should stop the gear grind. They don't need it. The concept of BiS is plain silly. If you just beat the hardest enemy the game has to offer at that time, why pursue BiS at that point? There is nothing to use that new gear on. And... by the time a new "hardest enemy" is out there, new gear comes out anyway. On top of that, you can get gear 10 iLvl higher than the previous raid gear on Day 1.

I know it's unpopular but I'd like it if there was some way to give loot weight to a player who hasn't gotten the drop yet. It's pretty bad to go even this late into savage trying to get drops and they're won by someone who's farming for BiS on their 4th job instead of the person who never got the drop on their main job. Even just restricting players who've gotten that particular coffer to greed after they've won it once would be appreciated. Before anyone mentions it yes I know there is the books for trade in but clearing weeks and weeks in a row without loot while other people are gearing their 3rd or 4th job feels awful.

[technole]

A lot of the loot system for savage is just to keep subs up and to keep people doing content. Those players that are late to the raiding scene (even by a week) would be left out entirely since if they didn't already have the clear, they would never get into a farm party.

Incoming unpopular opinion:
The moment a player clears a raid tier, they should stop the gear grind. They don't need it. The concept of BiS is plain silly. If you just beat the hardest enemy the game has to offer at that time, why pursue BiS at that point? There is nothing to use that new gear on. And... by the time a new "hardest enemy" is out there, new gear comes out anyway. On top of that, you can get gear 10 iLvl higher than the previous raid gear on Day 1.

More like an out-of-touch opinion, as DSR is tuned for i600, so naturally clearing savage and farming the gear towards BiS is the admission ticket to ultimate while the tier is relevant.

[Ivtrix]

More like an out-of-touch opinion, as DSR is tuned for i600, so naturally clearing savage and farming the gear towards BiS is the admission ticket to ultimate while the tier is relevant.

Not even just that, it makes almost all unsycned and open world content easier. Theres no reason not to pursue BiS if you are capable of it.