The Ancients still deserved better, after everything

[Rulakir]

Wait hold on, where are the ancients portrayed as strawman lunatics?

Venat's cutscene. Given that was from her perspective, it goes to show what a low an opinion she had of her people. The irony being she's painted as impartial, but after the events of Elpis cause her to have a crisis of faith she becomes quite biased and is in absolutely in no position to be making life or death decisions especially on a global scale.

Her back was always against the wall, knowledge of the coming demise does not stop it already.

Venat is presented with the opportunity for a 'do over' when the WoL tells her that the future she ushered in resulted in 1) the omnicide of original Etheirys, 2) the obliteration of 8 shards including the 13th, 3) the near annihilation of the First and this isn't including the 8UC timeline. We're also there because we have no idea what to do. The Final Days have returned, they're exponentially worse than the first round because thanks to the sundering souls are now so susceptible to the Song of Oblivion it outright destroys them. We're at a dead end. The fact that this knowledge as presented is considered adequate let alone acceptable to determine that the WoL's future was the best possible outcome, especially when she literally never tried anything else, is absolutely nonsensical.

As for Hermes, Venat's reasons for not acting against him are inconsistent with all of the preceding narrative. I don't know what more there is to say about it.

TBH, it's a morally grey story. It's important that we not all agree on it, and it's a sign it was done fairly well for all the flak it gets around here.

There's nothing morally grey about it and since I keep seeing this reasoning I'm left to assume a decent amount of this community doesn't know what morally grey is. Just because it's a black action and white response doesn't make it grey. What the writers did in EW was undermine every character in the game at the expense of Venat to glorify something that at any other time they would have adamantly been against, in fact, I'd go as far to say that she represents the antithesis of the moral standards put forth by the Scions over the past decade. It was jarring. This isn't even addressing the outright breaking of certain characters, like Emet, who were so grossly manipulated to prop up Venat as a 'good guy' that there was just no taking it seriously anymore.

[DPZ2]

And here I thought we were discussing the philosophical dilemmas posed by the storyline, summarized by the OP as:

"Tldr; the Ancients are my true people, not the Sundered and Endwalker was one big nightmare for me that forced me to commit virtual genocide, be okay with it, offend my moral values, wank the other person responsible the whole ride, and generally commit numerous crimes on my person at the hands of Square Enix."

Complete with a number of "what ifs" that presumed (1) we are alive and go back in time and (2) Venat doesn't create a time paradox leading to us never having been alive in the first place.

With a side of Multiverse and betrayed Ancients who are somehow playing the game.

[kpxmanifesto]

Daily reminder that the Ancients built Zodiark in a cave, with a box of scraps.

I knew it. Tony Stark is a descendant of the ancients.

[DPZ2]

Daily reminder that the Ancients sacrificed 2/3 of their population to create and feed the meat shield Zodiark, and thought that by sacrificing more 'inconsequential' life they could get them back. What they based that assumption on, I have no idea. I doubt that Zodiark told them anything more than "feed me".

[PawPaw]

Daily reminder that the Ancients sacrificed 2/3 of their population to create and feed the meat shield Zodiark, and thought that by sacrificing more 'inconsequential' life they could get them back. What they based that assumption on, I have no idea. I doubt that Zodiark told them anything more than "feed me".

Oof. Is it that difficult to understand the idea of equivalent exchange? You trade aether for more aether. it's really not that hard to grasp and makes quite a bit of sense. Also, you remember that Zodiark was sentient due to Elidibus being his heart? He would have known what was possible and not possible and would have been able to communicate that, even, if they'd needed to ask.

[OhNooo]

The one silver lining in all this is that Hydaelyn’s dead. No more hear feel think annoying the crap out of me.

Anyway. I think it’s hilarious how the GCBTW takes it upon themselves to try and “correct” or lecture people on lore when they’re just venting their frustrations. Not sure how linking screenshot #6,082 is supposed to change a person’s feelings but you do you I guess.

[RyuDragnier]

Oof. Is it that difficult to understand the idea of equivalent exchange? You trade aether for more aether. it's really not that hard to grasp and makes quite a bit of sense. Also, you remember that Zodiark was sentient due to Elidibus being his heart? He would have known what was possible and not possible and would have been able to communicate that, even, if they'd needed to ask.

On that note, a side tangent. I wonder if Elidibus (or should I say Zodiark) originally just told them what he could do when asked, and ultimately left the decision up to the majority on whether or not they wanted to bring back those lost. Considering how Zodiark just wanted "the Salvation of the star", it's very likely he was willing to go along with whatever the majority decided to do. Had they decided to just rejuvenate the world and left those who had sacrificed themselves to form him stay dead, he likely would have accepted it as their (and his) will. Considering how he never really directly involved himself with us until the balance was at stake, it's possible that he himself set the "rules" on the various Calamity creations and told the rest of them when the world was okay for another one. Us pushing things too much towards light (with the combination of Ardbert's crew) forced his hand because he knew just how much damage it could cause the Source if the 8th Calamity kicked off there (and we heard how bad the damages were).

[Skyborne]

The game's story gets praised and lifted up to the heavens with multiple people going on about how emotional it was and how it tore them up and they cried multiple times, but apparently OP being strongly attached to and torn up about their favorite fictional culture is worthy of mockery. gcbtw

[DPZ2]

Oof. Is it that difficult to understand the idea of equivalent exchange? You trade aether for more aether. it's really not that hard to grasp and makes quite a bit of sense. Also, you remember that Zodiark was sentient due to Elidibus being his heart? He would have known what was possible and not possible and would have been able to communicate that, even, if they'd needed to ask.

Zodiark's success was due more to the fact that the 2/3 of the population that sacrificed themselves were no longer using creation magicks. As for 'equivalent exchange' ... where in our long history of dealing with Primals have we ever encountered one that did not demand more Aether?

[Rulakir]

Daily reminder that the Ancients sacrificed 2/3 of their population to create and feed the meat shield Zodiark, and thought that by sacrificing more 'inconsequential' life they could get them back. What they based that assumption on, I have no idea. I doubt that Zodiark told them anything more than "feed me".

I'd say daily, but more like hourly reminder that Zodiark as a blood god has been consistently debunked throughout ShB and EW. I realize it's somehow become widely accepted headcanon despite all evidence to the contrary, but I can't take anyone seriously who says it. Especially as one of those in this thread also threw out the "you didn't pay attention to the story" line. You're not only showing yourself ignorant of the lore, but that you're not worth engaging in any good faith.