Is the WoL actually good though?

[Rannie]

The WoL would have chosen to fight back, but a condition to enter that hall was disarming yourself. They weren't strong enough to resist unarmed, and thus were forced to flee. It's actually brought up in one of the DRK quests where the WoL literally resents being disarmed and being unable to fight back.

In the hindsight of the WoL of course they would have fought back, yet you do gotta admit that at that point in time they weren't really expecting to be accused of regicide against the Sultana or that the Sultana was going to flop down to the ground because of "poison" granted some of us could see it coming a mile away when it happened but I don't really think the character did. But if they had known then yeah most likely they would have fought back if they were even allowed to even have a glimpse of Nanamo with their weapon on. (It's not like Gandalf at the entrance to the Halls of King Theoden pulling out a 'his staff is his walking stick cause he's too damn old' rofl)

[KizuyaKatogami]

I can't remember a time where WoL purposefully picked a fight without even trying to parley or negotiate in the MSQ aside from dealing with people like Zenos or Valens, vengeful primals like the Warring Triad, or beasts like Bismarck or the Lightwardens, who won't respond with anything else. Heck, in Ronka the heroes try to call a truce to get out of a death trap, only for Ran'jit to go straight for murder.

WoL doesn't go on mass killing sprees to satisfy their Avatar either. They kill enough beasties, wanted bandits, and people trying to kill them first anyways.

Just one example i can think of is Elidibus in 5.3. We have the memory crystals to help restore his memory and we don’t even attempt to give it to him. Instead our only 2 dialogue options are telling him his people are dead and he needs to get over it(which is a bit ironic considering the final zone of EW….) Again, diadem pretty clearly states it’s due to us one of the animal species almost went extinct. Or in the drk quests, you have a nobleman who you goad into attacking you with his bodyguards so you can kill him, and the journal entry afterwards comments on his blood etc, and then you let a woman who attempted murder go free.

[Dikatis]

Just one example i can think of is Elidibus in 5.3. We have the memory crystals to help restore his memory and we don’t even attempt to give it to him. Instead our only 2 dialogue options are telling him his people are dead and he needs to get over it(which is a bit ironic considering the final zone of EW….) Again, diadem pretty clearly states it’s due to us one of the animal species almost went extinct. Or in the drk quests, you have a nobleman who you goad into attacking you with his bodyguards so you can kill him, and the journal entry afterwards comments on his blood etc, and then you let a woman who attempted murder go free.

The Scions had tried REPEATEDLY to solve this diplomatically with him before this. From confronting him in Rak'tika to when he kidnapped Y'shtola in Amaurot. Then he sent an army of Warriors of Light to murder us across every single locale in Norvandt while showing complete and utter apathy to the damage he knows he's doing to G'raha Tia. In doing so, Elidibus had openly declared war on the Scions and was doing everything in his power to kill them. He is the one who broke negotiations down, not WoL. Trying to reopen negotiations by walking over to hand over the memory crystals would have just reminded Elidibus of what he was fighting for and made him more determined to kill WoL, since he was clearly out for revenge against the heroes for killing Emet-Selch and getting Lahabrea killed by Thordan. WoL and the Scions were acting purely in self-defense and walking over to hand him the memory crystals is just begging to get an axe driven through them.

It speaks a lot more to WoL's compassion that they're willing to protect Lowdy from an overzealous warden who was trying to torture her for her sins rather than letting her atone. As Myste (aka WoL) says, "No one is undeserving. No one is beyond redemption. This I must believe." Lowdy also doesn't actually murder anyone at the peace conference.

[SnowVix]

Or in the drk quests, you have a nobleman who you goad into attacking you with his bodyguards so you can kill him, and the journal entry afterwards comments on his blood etc, and then you let a woman who attempted murder go free.

i don't recall that quest at all, can you remind me of the quest name? because the closest one i recall is the one where you kill some temple knights who were abusing their authority to force themselves on a young woman.

[Stepjam]

Just one example i can think of is Elidibus in 5.3. We have the memory crystals to help restore his memory and we don’t even attempt to give it to him. Instead our only 2 dialogue options are telling him his people are dead and he needs to get over it(which is a bit ironic considering the final zone of EW….) Again, diadem pretty clearly states it’s due to us one of the animal species almost went extinct. Or in the drk quests, you have a nobleman who you goad into attacking you with his bodyguards so you can kill him, and the journal entry afterwards comments on his blood etc, and then you let a woman who attempted murder go free.

Why on earth would we give him the memory crystals to jog his memory? If he could do everything he did in 6.3 just running on autopilot, what would he be capable when he's actually able to remember what he was fighting for? He was always our enemy, why would we help him when he actively rejects any attempts at understanding and wants to destroy the First and all the other reflections?

[SannaR]

I feel anything Diadem related isn't meant to be taken seriously and to be seen as a tongue and cheek type of thing from the devs. In a meta way of oh look this is what the 4th or 5th time we've redone this zone joke as to explain why there are no more dinosaurs and the like roaming around.

[Dikatis]

i don't recall that quest at all, can you remind me of the quest name? because the closest one i recall is the one where you kill some temple knights who were abusing their authority to force themselves on a young woman.

The quest is the Level 63 quest, "The Widow and her Love". The context is that Myste drags the WoL into finding someone he can help with his simulacrums, holding WoL's aether hostage (though admittedly by accident). He settles on Lowdy, the waitress who drugged the WoL back at Aymeric's first attempt to broker a peace conference between man and dragon. Her proctor is overzealous and hellbent on torturing her, filling her every day with misery and scorn, rather than allowing her to atone and serve out her sentence as decreed by the courts. Seeing this, WoL goes up to the proctor and asks him to tone it down. The proctor, so blinded by faith and apparently oblivious to the fact that this "concerned adventurer" is the Savior of Ishgard, draws his sword, forcing WoL to defend themselves and ultimately killing the guy.

It's not, "we goaded him to fight just to have an excuse to kill him" like Kizuya said it is.

The exact exchange:

Fine, fine! Do what you will! Conjure her husband! <sigh> But do not come crying to me when she curses you for your kindness...

I'll not give the hunters cause to turn their bows on us, either. Rielle, take Myste into the woods and hide. Forename and I will free the girl.

Rather, I will free the girl. She would know you at once, and might misunderstand your intentions. We cannot risk the commotion.

As for your part...no one is truly outside Halone's grace, don't you think? Confront the proctor. Make him see the error of his ways. If he is a good man, then he may yet repent of his wicked ways...

If he refuses, then that is his choice to make, and he will have to accept the consequences of his actions. Doubly so if he bears steel, yes?

Do not play me for a fool! Your sins are beyond forgiveness! Ser Aymeric and his noble brethren may think you worthy of mercy, but I have seen your kind before. A swift death is more than you deserve!

Hm? Who are you? Why do you disturb me?

A concerned adventurer who objects to my treatment of a criminal? Hah! If only you knew her sins. She should have been thrown into Witchdrop.

Alas, the Lord Speaker in his boundless wisdom and mercy demanded that we spare the woman's life. But rest assured I will see that her every waking moment is filled with misery and scorn.

You presume to judge me!? A man of the church!? I will not be cowed by your threats! The Fury guide and protect me! The Fury guide and protect me!

We don't know what happened to her either, but there's no indication that she had any intent of fleeing, especially when it's mentioned that her guilt was more painful to her than even the proctor's punishments and fantasies of murdering her himself. We also know that WoL has forgiven her enough to not want to hurt her despite what she did to them.

[SnowVix]

The quest is the Level 63 quest, "The Widow and her Love". The context is that Myste drags the WoL into finding someone he can help with his simulacrums, holding WoL's aether hostage (though admittedly by accident). He settles on Lowdy, the waitress who drugged the WoL back at Aymeric's first attempt to broker a peace conference between man and dragon. Her proctor is overzealous and hellbent on torturing her, filling her every day with misery and scorn, rather than allowing her to atone and serve out her sentence as decreed by the courts. Seeing this, WoL goes up to the proctor and asks him to tone it down. The proctor, so blinded by faith and apparently oblivious to the fact that this "concerned adventurer" is the Savior of Ishgard, draws his sword, forcing WoL to defend themselves and ultimately killing the guy.

It's not, "we goaded him to fight just to have an excuse to kill him" like Kizuya said it is.

The exact exchange:




We don't know what happened to her either, but there's no indication that she had any intent of fleeing, especially when it's mentioned that her guilt was more painful to her than even the proctor's punishments and fantasies of murdering her himself. We also know that WoL has forgiven her enough to not want to hurt her despite what she did to them.

So what you're saying is that someone blatantly misrepresented a DRK quest in an attempt to portray it as the edgelord class they wish it was? I wish I could say I was shocked.

[Stepjam]

I don't think having selfish motivations for getting into a career makes you a bad person. You are only a bad person if your selfish motivations make you do bad things in pursuit of said motivations. And whose to say that we don't move to more altruistic reasonings once we become a major player in international politics. When we say we were after fame/power/money, we were a literal nobody, not the hero of eorzea.

[Rannie]

In Ere Our Curtain Falls Elidibus refuses Emet out right to even look at his memory Crystal....

"Will you not look at your crystal?" I asked.

When Elidibus was still Elidibus and Lahabrea still Lahabrea, we had collected all of our memories of the Fourteen and committed them to crystal, that those who would take our seats one day might learn. Elidibus would, I was sure, find much within to help him remember─yet he shook his head.

"I am Elidibus. So long as I remember my duty, that is enough. Aught else I would only lose again in the course of this timeless struggle...and if these memories are truly so precious, pray do not ask that I forget them twice."