Is the WoL actually good though?

[Lyth]

The Dark Knight questline wasn't really about moral relativism. It was about being true to yourself and living with the weight of your decisions. Roleplaying isn't quite the same as story-writing and directing. An actor might not get to choose their part, but they can certainly find ways to personally express themselves through it, if they're imaginative enough.

Also, why can't this game be more like Tetris.

[Cleretic]

The Dark Knight questline wasn't really about moral relativism. It was about being true to yourself and living with the weight of your decisions. Roleplaying isn't quite the same as story-writing and directing. An actor might not get to choose their part, but they can certainly find ways to personally express themselves through it, if they're imaginative enough.

Also, why can't this game be more like Tetris.

Yeeeeah, here's the eternal thing bout Dark Knight: for all Fray says, they never take the option not to help. They rant about it a bit, they talk about how easy it could be to walk away, but they never do. Because the core belief of Dark Knight, from top to bottom, is to do what's right even if it sucks.
The original Dark Knights of Ishgard did what they knew was the right thing to do even in the face of an oppressive theocracy saying otherwise.
Sidurgu's journey is to learn that the easy catharsis of revenge is folly, that he needs to truly care and that let those sometimes painful feelings be his guide.
And the WoL themselves, who was already doing what's right, perhaps gets the most pointed lesson of them all: that no matter how thankless the road is, no matter how much it stretches you or how much it makes you want to scream, that doing the right thing is the right thing to do.

Dark Knight holds no moral relativism, but it does have false choices. Because its entire purpose is to tell you that, no matter what, the Warrior of Light will always help. That's why Dark Knight was the perfect promo job for Shadowbringers: because in a journey where their life was at the greatest risk it's ever been if they dared to fight, they still fought.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The thing with the WoL is i feel there’s plenty of times where fighting isn’t necessary and they still choose to. In a way it makes them seem a bit similar to Zenos in the end and i believe this is even reflected upon by him. It’s almost as if we choose to fight fight fight instead of possibly talking things out. Obviously it’s an mmo so we can’t really have any agency whatsoever(even though other mmos do it but i digress) but it still rubs me off the wrong way. I mean…now with reaper we’re basically consuming peoples souls lol. And i guess that’s just okay.

[Ransu]

At the start of ARR you were just an ordinary adventurer so those answers make complete sense.

[Carin-Eri]

At the start of ARR you were just an ordinary adventurer so those answers make complete sense.

I think part of something Ardbert said really sums it up, and very much applies to 'our' WoL:

"We were just adventurers trying to make our way. An odd job here, a favor there ─ we never aspired to be Warriors of Light.

But word of our deeds spread, and soon people were calling us heroes. They placed their hopes and dreams on our shoulders and bid us fight for all that was good and right"

[DPZ2]

From my tumblr account, written back in 2017:

"On my first trip to Gridania, I shared a coach with a lovely man with the palest green eyes I’ve ever seen.

As we talked, he asked me “What was it that first attracted you to the life of an adventurer?”. I did not know how to respond. The typical answers of “Fame, Fortune, Power” do not ring true for me.

It is desire, I think, to grant aid to those who cannot afford it; to protect those without power to protect themselves; to acknowledge every life in a world where fame so often overshadows all else.

Bremondt seemed to understand the silence. As we said farewells upon our arrival, he gave me a ring, and he said to me “Become the sort of storied personage I can brag about havin’ met …”

Years later, I met him again on another coach while fleeing for my life, a savior with pale green eyes.

I still have the ring, after all of these years. And I do my best each day to be that person he saw I could become.

Dal S'ta, Memorii"

[Dikatis]

The thing with the WoL is i feel there’s plenty of times where fighting isn’t necessary and they still choose to. In a way it makes them seem a bit similar to Zenos in the end and i believe this is even reflected upon by him. It’s almost as if we choose to fight fight fight instead of possibly talking things out. Obviously it’s an mmo so we can’t really have any agency whatsoever(even though other mmos do it but i digress) but it still rubs me off the wrong way. I mean…now with reaper we’re basically consuming peoples souls lol. And i guess that’s just okay.

I can't remember a time where WoL purposefully picked a fight without even trying to parley or negotiate in the MSQ aside from dealing with people like Zenos or Valens, vengeful primals like the Warring Triad, or beasts like Bismarck or the Lightwardens, who won't respond with anything else. Heck, in Ronka the heroes try to call a truce to get out of a death trap, only for Ran'jit to go straight for murder.

WoL doesn't go on mass killing sprees to satisfy their Avatar either. They kill enough beasties, wanted bandits, and people trying to kill them first anyways.

[Cleretic]

I can't remember a time where WoL purposefully picked a fight without even trying to parley or negotiate in the MSQ aside from dealing with people like Zenos or Valens, vengeful primals like the Warring Triad, or beasts like Bismarck or the Lightwardens, who won't respond with anything else. Heck, in Ronka the heroes try to call a truce to get out of a death trap, only for Ran'jit to go straight for murder.

WoL doesn't go on mass killing sprees to satisfy their Avatar either. They kill enough beasties, wanted bandits, and people trying to kill them first anyways.

Yeah, the WoL never goes spoiling for a fight when one isn't necessary. It's just that most of the time a fight breaks out, because at the end of the day the central gameplay of FFXIV is based around combat so that's usually how the quest design breaks up the walls of text.

The line of thought that the WoL is by nature violent and looking for a fight falls apart with how many times things don't fall to violence even when conflict is happening. Crafting has a lot of perfect examples: there are SO MANY crafting quests where you end up at odds with people who could quite easily be shut up with a swift punch, and in most cases they definitely deserve it on a karmic level, but no violence ever breaks out. Almost like, no, the WoL does not go into situations where fighting isn't necessary and still chooses to; if they have another option, they will take it. And sometimes, that other option is 'fishing' and the WoL happens to have a rod in hand. Scholasticate story's also got some great examples, where nary a weapon is drawn and the WoL still winds up helping.

In fact, probably the best MSQ example of this is 2.55. There's actually a lot of people who chose violence that day, and the WoL was not one of them (much to the chagrin of certain players). Which is a good thing, because that day went pretty badly for everyone who did choose violence. I feel like, if the WoL was shooting for a fight to the degree that Kizuya describes, they probably wouldn't have made it to Heavensward alive and un-assassinated-for-regicide.

[Vyrerus]

In fact, probably the best MSQ example of this is 2.55. There's actually a lot of people who chose violence that day, and the WoL was not one of them (much to the chagrin of certain players). Which is a good thing, because that day went pretty badly for everyone who did choose violence. I feel like, if the WoL was shooting for a fight to the degree that Kizuya describes, they probably wouldn't have made it to Heavensward alive and un-assassinated-for-regicide.

The WoL would have chosen to fight back, but a condition to enter that hall was disarming yourself. They weren't strong enough to resist unarmed, and thus were forced to flee. It's actually brought up in one of the DRK quests where the WoL literally resents being disarmed and being unable to fight back.