Tank IDENTITY

[Lyth]

Aether manipulation is magic.

I get that you want to keep lifesteal on WAR because it's fun and you've been grandfathered into it. That's perfectly fine with me. But that's the crux of why this 'identity' discussion comes up again and again.

Also, what's up with the sealioning? I'm not here to explain every silly design decision this game has ever made.

[marelooke]

Aether manipulation is magic.

Even if so, that still doesn't necessarily make it lifesteal.

[Lyth]

Even if so, that still doesn't necessarily make it lifesteal.

Oh? Well, if it's not lifesteal, I imagine that nobody would miss it if the devs removed it from the game. Since that's not the theme they're going for, after all.

[marelooke]

Oh? Well, if it's not lifesteal, I imagine that nobody would miss it if the devs removed it from the game. Since that's not the theme they're going for, after all.

Ah yes, you calling it something it isn't will mean people won't miss that which it actually is...
As I said, lifesteal means taking the health from the enemy, which warrior does not do.

You can argue that from a technical PoV there's no difference, which I could accept just for the sake of argument, but you're then purposefully twisting that to meaning it doesn't fit the job fantasy, which is where I strongly disagree. You seem to sticking to the term just as a means to beat on that. Strictly speaking I don't think FF XIV has any jobs that really lifesteal from a "fantasy" PoV, you need to go to other games for that.

Arguably the de-facto "standard" for lifesteal "fantasy" jobs is the Necromancer, and for tanks that is likely EverQuest's Shadow Knight (which Blizzard "borrowed". WotLK's iteration was pretty much a carbon copy insofar the mechanics of each game allowed), which is a combination of Warrior *and* Necromancer (those would be EQ classes though, which, as most of us know don't exactly translate 1:1 to Final Fantasy)

[Vatom]

Ah yes, you calling it something it isn't will mean people won't miss that which it actually is...
As I said, lifesteal means taking the health from the enemy, which warrior does not do.

You can argue that from a technical PoV there's no difference, which I could accept just for the sake of argument, but you're then purposefully twisting that to meaning it doesn't fit the job fantasy, which is where I strongly disagree. You seem to sticking to the term just as a means to beat on that. Strictly speaking I don't think FF XIV has any jobs that really lifesteal from a "fantasy" PoV, you need to go to other games for that.

Arguably the de-facto "standard" for lifesteal "fantasy" jobs is the Necromancer, and for tanks that is likely EverQuest's Shadow Knight (which Blizzard "borrowed". WotLK's iteration was pretty much a carbon copy insofar the mechanics of each game allowed), which is a combination of Warrior *and* Necromancer (those would be EQ classes though, which, as most of us know don't exactly translate 1:1 to Final Fantasy)

You were dead serious about this post huh?

Get off your high horse for the sake of argument
Heal/hit dress it up how you want the mech doesn't change

Ok here goes lifesteal is the mainstream name of HEAL PER HIT
You can say your life steal is soul siphon or souleater or Drain or Idk any

[Shurrikhan]

Ok here goes lifesteal is the mainstream name of HEAL PER HIT
You can say your life steal is soul siphon or souleater or Drain or Idk any

That's the thing, though. Is it "heal per hit" or "stealing lifeforce"? To anyone else it's merely the prior, and thus need not be restricted to vampiric casters/spellblades. The way Lyth was using the term, "lifesteal" can only belong to ostensible magic-users.

No one's disagreeing that Warrior has healing-from-attacks (lifesteal, in the mere mechanical sense), only that it is therefore using some sort of innately vampiric spellcraft (lifesteal, in a more specific thematic sense, or per terms far more narrow mechanical term of additional, magic-based theft of hit points).

Mare was simply disagreeing with that second, thematic (and far narrower mechanical) claim.

[DannyDeDitto]

As vatom said Lifesteal is, by all intents and purposes, life per hit, but also life on kill. Many other games have their own way of building it;

GW2: Is a separate proc that deals a flat amount of damage and heals a flat amount of HP, and they're scaled separately from Power and Healing Power.
Path of Exile: Heals from damage dealt, but applies it as a regeneration effect (unless you have a certain unique equipped)
WoW: DKs have Death Strike, which heals you a flat 10% of your HP and more scaled from the damage you took recently, granted there is also a leech stat from other means and that one is the simple heal from a perecentage of damage dealt
Castlevania SOTN: You had Dark Metamorphosis which healed Alucard a flat 8 HP from each blood sprite that collides with his body.
Dark Souls: Some items like the Server and the Butcher Knife would heal you (a miserable 5 HP) on hit, there was also the Ring of the Evil Eye which healed you from each kill.
I don't play LoL but i remember Vladimir is a vampire and heals from his Q which is a ranged attack, from what i read that's also just a flat amount of HP.

I could mention more but those are the ones i remember atm. Personaly i always prefer the heals from damage dealt version as that one feels the coolest but all lifesteals are nice, i think it has a bit more to do with the theme, cuz i remember some games that also add heals from damage to holy boys and girls, and i wouldn't really call that ''lifestealing'' since lifestealing is like i said before, more grim in nature.

[DannyDeDitto]

Arguably the de-facto "standard" for lifesteal "fantasy" jobs is the Necromancer

I can't really relate to this one, from someone that enjoys Necros religiously there's two things that make a Necromancer; Undead Minions, and Curses, you're basicaly a Grim General™ so while some jolly little paladin would cheer and bless their comrades in arms to make them do their job better you instead debilitate your enemy so they get effed up harder by your pets. Life-Stealing, Dark Magicks like throwing bone shards all over the place like it's a gothic Metal Slug, satanic stuff like becoming a demon, all that shite and more, in that order, isn't quite ''necessary'' it's more of the bonuses you can give to a necro when adding one to your game or whatever, but those two i find are the most, say, ''appropriate'' way for a necro to start with. That's basicaly what Diablo 2 necro was like if you went with a minion build, popular choice was to also pair it up with corpse explosion but a simple skeletons + curses was a really strong and amazing combo, if a bit lazy which is why corpse explosion was more exciting, in the manual they also had some very nice lore to their skills, how they were basicaly able to shape both spiritual energies and material ones as well, which is why they can make clay, metal and fire golems, and making a skeleton is kind of both of those where they take a pile of bones, and slap a soul on it to keep them bones together... anyway i'm getting off-track here <-<'