Tank IDENTITY

[DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise]

When I think paladin, I see the sky raining blood and hear death metal in the background.
The demons are running and screaming in terror, but it’s too late. I have your scent. There is no escape.
No matter how much the beg, there will be no mercy, only holy gore.

[DannyDeDitto]

I honestly hope that they start taking some notes from the pvp designs for the jobs. Balance aside of course i think the overall diversity and identity are pretty good.

JUST as a concept of an idea i had, Warrior having an AoE stun for example slaps so hard for me, like put that shit on decimate and make it a LONGER stun while enhanced with berserk/inner release, dps kits on a tank honestly should have more tools on the side for mitigation, and perhaps support for the party, like giving fell cleave some shit like ''sunder armor'' that makes the target take more damage from all sources so you pop that during the boss fight, or if you wanna burst a particular mob. Blota? give that shit here, give it an AoE effect around the target that pulls everything around it toward me, you can use that during pulls with ranged enemies so you don't have to sprint forward then sprint back.
In my opinion perhaps the game could let go of role actions to pave the way for more utility to really build a diverse kit between each job, Rampart is boring, Reprisal is ugly, give me PvE Primal Scream.

[Zairava]

In my opinion perhaps the game could let go of role actions to pave the way for more utility to really build a diverse kit between each job, Rampart is boring, Reprisal is ugly, give me PvE Primal Scream.

Honestly, I can get behind this. Not that I ever expect it to happen, but it's an idea. it leaves open room for more unique abilities to the jobs. if anything, I would just want to keep arm's length for all melee, and swiftcast and lucid dreaming for casters.

[Shurrikhan]

if anything, I would just want to keep arm's length for all melee, and swiftcast and lucid dreaming for casters.

Even those three are a waste.

• Arm's Length and Surecast exists only to replace all two-minute knockback mechanics with a button instead of pre-positioning (which is both generally more interesting and costs... no buttons).
• Lucid Dreaming may as well just be baseline increased MP generation or reduced MP costs.
• Swiftcast on Casters has no application outside of early Flare (Ruby Rite has a longer recast time, too, not just cast time, so it's wasted there), already likely overpowered caster rezzes.
• Provoke could easily give a further bump of temporary Enmity and thereby remove any need whatsoever for Shirk (not that there's a need even now).
• Bloodbath and Second Wind could be more interestingly handled by job-specific sustain tools instead of scavenging a Marauder and Pugilist skill each.
• By all means, bring back stuns attached to (especially if bankable) damage oGCDs; this game's garbage diminishing returns system needs replacement anyways, so it's time to stop simply throwing a rug over the real problem.
• Not every Physical Ranged needs a full suite of CC forms in all the same ways. Let En Avant through enemies and Venomous/Caustic Bite, for instance, apply the Heavy, and let other skills apply other CC forms, etc.

Just trim all Role Actions entirely, give tanks their own version each of Provoke, give healers their own unique rez spells and/or Swiftcast-like abilities better fit to their kits, and give non-casters a further sustain tool (or further potency to their existing ones) that'd synergize or at least fit thematically with their kits.

You forgot the part about Arm's Length being also a mitigation tool in dungeons.

Not forgetting it; it's just a capacity that could all too easily be offloaded to anywhere else and thereby avoid that button bloat / added point of homogeneity.

[Zairava]

Snip

Just started a thread on role action removal, I think discussion on this would better be held there since it's topic is already set in stone. (though that usually doesn't stop threads from derailing at times)

[Tlamila]

Even those three are a waste. [LIST]Arm's Length and Surecast exists only to replace all two-minute knockback mechanics with a button instead of pre-positioning (which is both generally more interesting and costs... no buttons).

You forgot the part about Arm's Length being also a mitigation tool in dungeons.

[DannyDeDitto]

Even if some role actions are important such as taunt and intercept, i think they could still give each tank their own versions indeed, maybe not for mechanical reasons but for flavor, WoW already does this, although it's not the most important thing in the world, but i mean... look at the 30% vulnerability down CD, it's the same exact thing on 3/4 tanks just with a different look.

Warrior just fucking screams to get a mob's attention.
Paladin gets shiny like a flashbang or something.
Dark Knight highlights in-game absolutely livid discourse for PvE changes from the forums.
Gunbreaker highlights in-game absolutely livid discourse for PvP changes from the forums.

[Basteala]

Ten bucks says a lot of this confusion comes from people moving over from WoW, where Death Knight--which has a very similar "theme" (I guess?) to Dark Knight DID have a lot of self sustain, and it was Warrior in that game that did all the damage and had the garbage self heals.

[Vatom]

Pipe dream all of it SE isn't going to do anything to change tanks especially when they just did most of it in ShB
I am 100 % and I wish for it but Im done fighting that fight
Everything will stay homogenized it keeps casuals and adds new players (Not blaming them)
But i don't think they interested in anything that brings dramatic change let alone some of these idea can change the game in its entirety
That is a big no on the scope of bother if it wont bring money then it wont change
Also not a lot of the beginning classes since HW are amalgamations of other classes fused together so many concepts of DRK or WAR in FF11 or other number
games don't fully transfer over and don't me started on the supposed coding issue (you break one thing its going to trickle down to others)
Better of asking for a whole new Tank then bothering to make the old ones better
IF they do 90% of the time they dont do it the way you wish for and when they change it and some people like it now its even harder since someone is going to be mad
I personally don't think we are going to get much unique or change in FF for the rest of the games life (unless something drastic randomly happens)

[EnigmaticDodo]

Bro, they aren't going to make things unique, because then, "oh no this one will be better than this one in this way and that might exclude people!", and a meta will form, which always occurs regardless. People will also complain that it's too complicated. See: all of the changes from HW to now.

Try PvP if you want identity.