Tank IDENTITY

[Shurrikhan]

if anything, I would just want to keep arm's length for all melee, and swiftcast and lucid dreaming for casters.

Even those three are a waste.

• Arm's Length and Surecast exists only to replace all two-minute knockback mechanics with a button instead of pre-positioning (which is both generally more interesting and costs... no buttons).
• Lucid Dreaming may as well just be baseline increased MP generation or reduced MP costs.
• Swiftcast on Casters has no application outside of early Flare (Ruby Rite has a longer recast time, too, not just cast time, so it's wasted there), already likely overpowered caster rezzes.
• Provoke could easily give a further bump of temporary Enmity and thereby remove any need whatsoever for Shirk (not that there's a need even now).
• Bloodbath and Second Wind could be more interestingly handled by job-specific sustain tools instead of scavenging a Marauder and Pugilist skill each.
• By all means, bring back stuns attached to (especially if bankable) damage oGCDs; this game's garbage diminishing returns system needs replacement anyways, so it's time to stop simply throwing a rug over the real problem.
• Not every Physical Ranged needs a full suite of CC forms in all the same ways. Let En Avant through enemies and Venomous/Caustic Bite, for instance, apply the Heavy, and let other skills apply other CC forms, etc.

Just trim all Role Actions entirely, give tanks their own version each of Provoke, give healers their own unique rez spells and/or Swiftcast-like abilities better fit to their kits, and give non-casters a further sustain tool (or further potency to their existing ones) that'd synergize or at least fit thematically with their kits.

You forgot the part about Arm's Length being also a mitigation tool in dungeons.

Not forgetting it; it's just a capacity that could all too easily be offloaded to anywhere else and thereby avoid that button bloat / added point of homogeneity.

[Zairava]

Snip

Just started a thread on role action removal, I think discussion on this would better be held there since it's topic is already set in stone. (though that usually doesn't stop threads from derailing at times)

[Tlamila]

Even those three are a waste. [LIST]Arm's Length and Surecast exists only to replace all two-minute knockback mechanics with a button instead of pre-positioning (which is both generally more interesting and costs... no buttons).

You forgot the part about Arm's Length being also a mitigation tool in dungeons.

[ItsUrBoi]

Provoke could easily give a further bump of temporary Enmity and thereby remove any need whatsoever for Shirk (not that there's a need even now).

What? I don't think you know how this works. You do need to shirk all the time when executing a tank swap.
To argument why, let's say I am a DRK and my PLD co tank wants to taunt for a tank swap mechanic. He taunts, and we are now very close in aggro, but he has a slight edge. If I do not shirk, and my burst is coming up, I will surpass him in aggro and you know what's gonna happen? The boss will switch from tank to tank, both tanks fighting for aggro. Shirk is absolutely needed when swapping. Turning tank stance off and on could be a replacement for that, but you are still generating aggro, just not as much, and doesn't fully solve the issue either because in some mechanics you will want to swap twice ( OT taunt , MT shirk -> mechanic happens -> MT taunt, OT shirk , so if the MT turned stance off, how will he provoke effectively, since the aggro provoke gives is increased by tank stance )

[Shurrikhan]

You do need to shirk all the time when executing a tank swap.

The (former) MT can literally just turn off tank stance before swapping out. It's 10x bonus enmity, and tanks already do almost two-thirds the damage of DPS. Keeping a lead over the dps will not be dependent on using Shirk nor on keeping up tank stance for even the couple seconds before swapping out.

It's an oGCD toggle, mate.

[ItsUrBoi]

Read my whole answer before and think again...

The problem is not being over taken by dps, its by the other tank. And yes its just a toggle but most tank swaps usually happen twice.
Also very often due to tank dps ( ex: DRK + any tank except GNB in Endwalker content ) you will have to shirk even when not swapping because you are over taking the main tank in aggro.

[Shurrikhan]

Read my whole answer before and think again...

The problem is not being over taken by dps, its by the other tank. And yes its just a toggle but most tank swaps usually happen twice.
Also very often due to tank dps ( ex: DRK + any tank except GNB in Endwalker content ) you will have to shirk even when not swapping because you are over taking the main tank in aggro.

Again. You will not overtake the MT in aggro. If you just. Turn off tank stance. Toggle it off just before you swap out and turn it on again only before Voking back in.

It's an oGCD toggle, mate. One can both turn it off before swapping out and back on, without any cost, before swapping back in.

If you're taking threat off your MT when you don't intend to, there's a much simpler solution than Shirk: turn your damn stance off, OT, until you're swapping in. You only, at most, need 2nd highest threat, which at 10x enmity doesn't take much stance uptime.