The Hunt is full of early pullers and griefers

[RicaRuin]

They don't have an invulnerability because Hunts/S-Ranks were never intended to be community content that has everyone wait for it. The wait time and etiquette is something the community put in place, so from SE's PoV, it's working as intended.

[Johners]

They don't have an invulnerability because Hunts/S-Ranks were never intended to be community content that has everyone wait for it. The wait time and etiquette is something the community put in place, so from SE's PoV, it's working as intended.

I short invulnerability window wouldn't really harm to be fair. It wouldn't stop someone from ninja pulling the moment it ended but it would at least give a window for people to group up and get there. Blizzard did a similar thing to the Sha of Anger world boss in World of Warcraft. It's still farmed by some players to this day for it's low drop chance mount drop but the content is also so old that it dies within seconds. They added a small invulnerability on spawn/respawn so people could actually get it tagged rather than missing the kill. Sure, you can still miss a kill, but you get a small window that doesn't leave people waiting for ages after it spawns but reduces the change to miss out.

[hagare]

I short invulnerability window wouldn't really harm to be fair. It wouldn't stop someone from ninja pulling the moment it ended but it would at least give a window for people to group up and get there. Blizzard did a similar thing to the Sha of Anger world boss in World of Warcraft. It's still farmed by some players to this day for it's low drop chance mount drop but the content is also so old that it dies within seconds. They added a small invulnerability on spawn/respawn so people could actually get it tagged rather than missing the kill. Sure, you can still miss a kill, but you get a small window that doesn't leave people waiting for ages after it spawns but reduces the change to miss out.

how short? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 30 seconds?
When does it start? when it spawns? when someone first spots it?

[Liam_Harper]

They don't have an invulnerability because Hunts/S-Ranks were never intended to be community content that has everyone wait for it. The wait time and etiquette is something the community put in place, so from SE's PoV, it's working as intended.

The problem is the "intended" way is bad. Very few people want to do it that way. It breeds player conflict and arguments. It's also contradictory in that they want Hunts to limited to whoever was in the zone at the time, but also have SS ranks, 1000+ S rank achievements and enabled Hunts to work cross world, which is designed more for large scale organization. Not to mention that anything which builds a sense of community should be encouraged in an MMO.

Hunts are neglected. Whether it's working as intended or not, the content badly needs some attention, rethinking and QoL.

[kaynide]

I said it before and i'll say it again.
ZNMs from XI. Look it up, that was the best of both worlds when it came to rare spawns/hunts.

I'm a huge fan of instanced BCNM fights like that. I even started a thread on it way back.

The problem is the "intended" way is bad. Very few people want to do it that way. It breeds player conflict and arguments. It's also contradictory in that they want Hunts to limited to whoever was in the zone at the time, but also have SS ranks, 1000+ S rank achievements and enabled Hunts to work cross world, which is designed more for large scale organization. Not to mention that anything which builds a sense of community should be encouraged in an MMO.

Hunts are neglected. Whether it's working as intended or not, the content badly needs some attention, rethinking and QoL.

Agreed; there is certainly an elegant solution somewhere. The idea that they can't at the very least have S ranks pop more frequently or at the very least reliably at a set time is just janky to me. The concept of a NM that has a 12 hour respawn time with a 16 hour window it might pop anywhere inside is just a lot of nonsense I had hoped left behind in ye-old-MMOs of yesteryear. ESPECIALLY when it's one that everyone can gank at the same time.

In Guildwars, you could theoretically be doing world bosses all day long and you eventually stop because you've had your fill and loaded your bags with loot, not because you're bored out of your mind waiting and/or rage quitting because it finally popped while you took a quick shower.

[Raoabolic]

I'm a huge fan of instanced BCNM fights like that. I even started a thread on it way back.

ZNMs are a different beast than BCNMs. You need to farm certain items and trade said items to an area in the wild to spawn a rare monster. Said rare monster then has a chance to drop an item that can spawn the next tier of rare monsters. I believe it went all the way to rank 4 and then you would need a drop from each rank 4 to spawn the big man, pandemonium warden. At least the ZNM system might loosen the grip early pullers have if the drop rate of the spawning items are kept fairly rare.

[kaynide]

ZNMs are a different beast than BCNMs. You need to farm certain items and trade said items to an area in the wild to spawn a rare monster. Said rare monster then has a chance to drop an item that can spawn the next tier of rare monsters. I believe it went all the way to rank 4 and then you would need a drop from each rank 4 to spawn the big man, pandemonium warden. At least the ZNM system might loosen the grip early pullers have if the drop rate of the spawning items are kept fairly rare.

I remember now; I had forgotten the fights like Kirin/AV were set up like that. It was a solid system..albeit sometimes frustrating!

This. Hunts are meant to be contested content but I think they don't realize contested content doesn't work as well in their setup here as it did in older MMOs like EQ and FFXI.

Yup. It works in a competitive system where you are trying to get the mob/drop first, but to their credit the 14 devs have created a very cooperative/collaborative game. Shame they don’t tune the open world stuff more to that, including hunts. It’d be easier to do if they just popped faster to encourage multiple smaller groups running around rather than 1 massive server hopping train.

[TaleraRistain]

Yup. It works in a competitive system where you are trying to get the mob/drop first, but to their credit the 14 devs have created a very cooperative/collaborative game. Shame they don’t tune the open world stuff more to that, including hunts. It’d be easier to do if they just popped faster to encourage multiple smaller groups running around rather than 1 massive server hopping train.

Yep, a lot more spontaneous, too. When I started playing, the call would go out across the server and we'd come from far and wide. Because Jenova was still fairly small and we only had our own people to rely on. But even as we got bigger, we would still do that. It wasn't until world visit that the train idea took over.

I'd love it if the Hunt content encouraged smaller, spontaneous gathering rather than the massive trains. Plus now there is this concept of "bullet" trains that don't wait for half the people to zone in. I really enjoyed Hunts in the past but I don't really do them anymore because they're just not fun now like they were.

[Rokke]

I'd love it if the Hunt content encouraged smaller, spontaneous gathering rather than the massive trains. Plus now there is this concept of "bullet" trains that don't wait for half the people to zone in. I really enjoyed Hunts in the past but I don't really do them anymore because they're just not fun now like they were.

Hunts are the same. If you see a mark out in the world there is literally nothing stopping you from gathering some friends and killing it. The reliance on trains only increases the reliance on trains.

[TaleraRistain]

The problem is the "intended" way is bad. Very few people want to do it that way. It breeds player conflict and arguments. It's also contradictory in that they want Hunts to limited to whoever was in the zone at the time, but also have SS ranks, 1000+ S rank achievements and enabled Hunts to work cross world, which is designed more for large scale organization. Not to mention that anything which builds a sense of community should be encouraged in an MMO.

Hunts are neglected. Whether it's working as intended or not, the content badly needs some attention, rethinking and QoL.

This. Hunts are meant to be contested content but I think they don't realize contested content doesn't work as well in their setup here as it did in older MMOs like EQ and FFXI.