Just remove healers.

[ForteNightshade]

Then try to clear savage without heal, go ahead, we watch you.

- Every single fight this tier has been solo healed in i580 crafted gear. Yes, even P4S.
- P1S and P2S have been cleared with only tanks. Clearing with DPS and Tank would be even easier.

This is the highest level content excluding Ultimate. Anything below that you don't need a healer whatsoever. Dungeons? Even DRK has cleared all of them with three DPS. EX? They were killed the first week of Endwalker without healers. At the current junction, healers only exist for inexperienced players not to struggle, and two healers are only taken into Savage at the midcore level or higher because of FFlogs enforcing it. In order to parse on the standard ranking, you need a 2/2/4. comp Were that to ever change, every midcore group and above would eventually be running five DPS.

With all that said, do I think healers should be removed? No. There is clearly a large enough portion of the playerbase that enjoys the style of gameplay they're supposed fulfill. The issue is the dev team is so afraid little Timmy or Sally might struggle, they continue to design everything around the lowest common denominator. Not your average raider who, while lacking experience, is still a decent play; a green parser if you will. No, it's the person who can barely handle simple mechanics and usually dies once a pull. That's who they're catering content to. And it's why healing suffers so much in this game. If you're average, you're already playing above expectation.

[Silverbane]

You keep enjoying Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis.
I'll keep arguing that my brain deserves more than that.

You're not arguing, you're just making a personal attack.
And a BS one too: I don't subscribe to your Big Lie that Sages and all other healers have a "1-button DPS" kit.
But you have already proven you don't understand the Sage DPS kit, and I'll just let it go at that.

By the way, I saw one of you "1-button DPS" idiots in Duty Roulette yesterday, standing about 10 yalms away from the pack of trash mobs that surrounded the tank, using Dosis on them. That Sage, like you, didn't know how to run a Sage effectively. He could have been the top damage-dealer for that encounter, but no, he followed your advice instead.

[ForteNightshade]

Well too bad for them. You queue as a healer, then just like a real combat medic, you're not as important as the guys with the belt-feds until something goes wrong. But when things do go wrong -- as they often do, in Duty Roulette -- you are priceless.

A combat medic is a design approach healers mains want as a compromise; a role who heals when necessary but otherwise has meaningful contribution in other areas.

This isn't how healers function in FFXIV. Your "meaningful contribution" is spamming the same button a bazillion times and trying not to die from boredom. A DPS player is always reasonably engaged, regardless of the content. Even tanks, though significantly less so due to the infrequent amount of tank busters, are engaged enough as they can fall back on a DPS rotation. Healers... have nothing. There is no DPS rotation nor an engaging set of tools. You have a binary: Babysitter or gimped DPS with one button; occasionally two.

But you have already proven you don't understand the Sage DPS kit, and I'll just let it go at that.

Are you really going to argue Eukrasian Dosis III every 30 seconds and two charges of Phlegma make up an engaging DPS kit? If so... that's utterly laughable. Warrior has more buttons worth pressing compared to that and it doesn't have many.

Before you mention Pneuma. It's the same potency as Dosis III. So you aren't engaging with it for DPS purposes but to avoid GCD healing. One of the few good healing concept they've implemented over the years but it's not going to make up the monotony that is spamming Dosis III 500+ times in Alliance raids. That isn't an exaggeration by the way. I've checked. One button pressed 500 times. Riveting gameplay, I assure you.

I'm guessing you didn't do P3S at the least yet.

P3S has been solo healed. In fact, it's arguably easier because tanks do the fountain mechanic better than healers. They take significantly less damage from each explosion and can invuln half the mechanic. Warrior can literally heal itself to full through three tower soaks with only two buttons. Equilibrium, for example, heals for over 150k with that buff. As for Life's Agony. You won't even see that in a good group nowadays, especially not with five DPS. Even if you do, AST negates its existence. Otherwise, you'll have healer LB3.

P4S is the only fight this tier where you have to outright gamble due to the fire stacks. You mitigate your odds by putting the one healer with a tank and shielding the hell out of them. At that point, you have a 1/6th chance of dying. Phase 2 has zero healer specific mechanics.

[Silverbane]

... Your "meaningful contribution" is spamming the same button a bazillion times and trying not to die from boredom. A DPS player is always reasonably engaged, regardless of the content. ... Are you really going to argue Eukrasian Dosis III every 30 seconds and two charges of Phlegma make up an engaging DPS kit? If so... that's utterly laughable.

Wow, it's like you don't even realize that Dyskrasia and Dyskrasia II (which are DPS gains over everything but Phlegma when you can hit two or more targets) even exist ... just like that idiot Sage I saw spamming Dosis into a pack of trash mobs, when he could have been putting the DPS to shame spamming Dyskrasia instead.

BTW, I looked up every character with Semirhage's character name in the Lodestone, and there's eight or so, none of whom have even one level of Sage. Not that having a few levels of Sage would guarantee good knowledge of the kit, but the fact that he or she appears to have none at all does make their pronouncements about Sage a bit less credible, don't you think?

How about you? Do you run Sage much? Do you burn down groups of trash mobs (and ads, sometimes) using Dyskrasia when you do? If not, why not? Afraid to stand in the thick of it? If so, don't worry, a fundamental unreality of FFXIV is that if the tank does his job, you can stick a flaming poker up a mobs butt while laughing in their face (if you're flexible enough LOL) and they'll still ignore you in favor of the tank. Most mobs don't care who's killing them, they just hate tanks!

[N.B. There is one thing I dislike about Sage: the names of the spells.]

[Silver-Strider]

Nonsense

I'm all for removing unnecessary skills on Tanks and DPS, so long as it doesn't compromise their ability to perform their job but since I'm primarily a healer main, I can't really give suggestions on those topics (although Six Sided Star and Anatman on MNK would be my 1st suggestion to go). I wouldn't put a Tank main in charge of DPS changes, a DPS main in charge of Healer changes and a Healer main in charge of Tank changes because that's doomed to end in disaster.

I don't really see a point in half of the healer skills that we've gotten over the years.
What's the point of Fey Blessing when it only heals for about as much as a Regen tic?
What's the point of Solace and Rapture when Cure 2 and Medica already existed?
What's the point of removing old skills like Divine Seal, only to reintroduce them again under a new coat of paint such as Temperance instead of just upgrading it like they've done with every version of Stone/Glare, Broil, Malefic, etc?

As for the priceless thing, I don't believe that for a second. On the odd occasion I felt masochistic enough to do Roulettes on my PLD, I was more than capable of carrying groups long after the healer went down and it often didn't matter the roulette.
Any dungeon content? Liberal use of Clemency on big hits kept DPS alive, on top of any utility/mitigation I could throw up to supplement was more than adequate.
Normal Raids? Cleared every single Eden Raid with my PLD playing healer after both healers died on more than 1 occasion.
Alliance Raid? Unless a fight has an enrage mechanic, not really a problem there either.

A well played Tank can more than compensate for a Healer in 90% of content and I am NOT a great tank by any measure.

The reason why we're not happy playing a healer is because we remember a time when there was more to do as a Healer. We had multiple DoTs to manage and a small DPS rotation between those DoTs, Cleric Stance and our Nuke. We had to actually manage MP in the past. We had to actually use our GCDs for more than just Filler Spam. We needed to shield prey mechanics. We needed to rotate Virus/Disable between Healers to make sure the party didn't die to a massive raid wide. Nothing of that has been retained so we went from having a solid workload that actually felt rewarding to pull off to having our job outsourced to Tanks/DPS roles and having the bare minimum to do.

WE"RE BORED!!! It's that simple.

[WaxSw]

Wow, it's like you don't even realize that Dyskrasia and Dyskrasia II (which are DPS gains over everything but Phlegma when you can hit two or more targets) even exist ... just like that idiot Sage I saw spamming Dosis into a pack of trash mobs, when he could have been putting the DPS to shame spamming Dyskrasia instead.

LOL, oh yes instead of pressing 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 we press 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 such differentiation. This must be trolling, no one is this dense.

BTW, I looked up every character with Semirhage's character name in the Lodestone, and there's eight or so, none of whom have even one level of Sage. Not that having a few levels of Sage would guarantee good knowledge of the kit, but the fact that he or she appears to have none at all does make their pronouncements about Sage a bit less credible, don't you think?

Not at all when logs have been posted here over and over and as Sage main I can confirm what they say is true. Sage's gameplay is so basic anyone with a bit of experience and knowledge about how healing works in this game can see how its played and if said player has played Sch even worse as the majority of their kit are almost copy-paste

[Silverbane]

WE'RE BORED!!! It's that simple.

I'm not bored with healing. Neither is my spouse.
So I'm not sure who this "we" you claim to speak for is.
Some of your fellow complainers here, sure.
But the general population of subscribers that play healers? You can't claim that.
Neither can I, but then, I'm not pretending to.

So why am I not bored?
It could be that I'm a bit more creative about using my kit than some people here. For example, there's apparently not a lot of healers that move into a boss's hitbox so they can hit the boss and the ads with their AoE. I didn't do that much back when I played a WHM (other than the usual triple-Holy on trash mobs), but SGE is a whole different beast.

It could be other things too. For example, I was doing Final Steps of Faith the other day and one of the other DNC in the group was a pink elephant. Watching that elephant move as they made their attacks was the highlight of the fight; the swirl of my red varsity skirt was boring by comparison. My spouse, also on a DNC, thought so too.

There's a lot of beauty to be found in this game, some of it in the most unlikely places.
I appreciate that.

[NobleWinter]

We've come to a point where the best argument in favor of the current healing toolkits is being able to look at other player's glam choices mid fight...

[Silverbane]

LOL, oh yes instead of pressing 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 we press 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 such differentiation. This must be trolling, no one is this dense.

Oh, and 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3 is just so much more exciting, right?
What you seem oblivious to is that knowing the right DPS key to hit depends on the combat situation, and can change pretty quickly, even if you do spam the one you pick until the situation changes. Understanding that and adapting to it on the fly takes some intelligence you don't seem to have.

Have you ever out-parsed good DPS on a trash pull? If not, you're a disgrace to SGE, because if you understood all the ramifications of your kit, you typically would. The exception is when the mobs are too brutal and/or the tank too squishy, then you have to adapt, heal a bit more and DPS a bit less. That's part of the fun: watching the tank's health bar (and your own) there among the sea of red mob health bars (generally from straight above the fight), evaluating the rate of change in each bar to see when you need to toss off an oGCD heal or mitigation (or, in the worst case, stop DPSing and just heal). And all the while watching for telegraphs of AoEs you need to dodge, and keeping half on eye on the health bars and any debuffs showing in the party list.

Ever done that? If not, why not?
If so, where you bored by it?

I genuinely enjoy running SGE. You don't. But rather than asking:

• What is Silverbane doing that I'm not?, or
• How might Silverbane's reasons for enjoying the game be different from mine?

you just insult me. Not that I care about that: it's not like you're anyone whose opinion I value, after all, and when the only response you have to my remarks is a personal attack, to me that says you've lost the argument.

So why don't you ask questions like the above? Are you afraid of the answers?
And why are you so desperate to convince other people that, in a world where people can all have legitimately different values and goals, no one with a brain can possibly honestly enjoy running an FFXIV healer?

Oh, and don't even try to argue I don't have a brain. I clearly do, as my writing demonstrates.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip

I lost my appreciation when they removed the fun from the game. I liked the multitasking healers used to have. If the best I have to look forward to is idiots in glamours (something I could do anyways) there's nothing left for me here.