Just remove healers.

[george357]

i can understand if you show us facts to back up your stantments for the removal of healers and why they need to be removed but to just say remove them makes no sence.

[Martynek]

i can understand if you show us facts to back up your stantments for the removal of healers and why they need to be removed but to just say remove them makes no sence.

There is no dedicated designer on the job design team for the Healing role.
There are only four people on the battle systems team (which job design falls under). None of them prioritize any of the individual jobs in the Healer role, nor the Healer role itself as a whole.

All Healer jobs use an entirely different role expression to Tanking or DPS, making them feel disjointed.
The design of Tanking jobs is largely done through a constant and largely varied GCD rotation that has little (or only passive) impact on their mitigation. Their role expression is done through OGCD abilities that do not affect the flow of the job in any way.
In the same way, DPS jobs consign all of their group utility to cooldowns that do not affect their performance.
Healing, however, is largely expressed through GCD healing (that is never actually used in higher levels of play), and all of them have a near-identical, static GCD rotation - Press Dia/Bio/E. Dosis/Combust, then press Glare/Broil/Dosis/Malefic 11-12 times, repeat ad mortem. The only break in this is that Sage has a single charged action to very slightly break the monotony, but to nowhere near a sufficient degree to make the experience palatable.

Healing becomes less complex the better you are at it.
Compared to learning Tank or DPS jobs, where the experience starts simple and you gradually learn to utilise more of your kit in interesting ways, the peak of complexity for healing jobs is at level 4. As you learn to use your kit, the base experience actually becomes less complex and less interesting, meaning that losing interest in the role as you become experienced in it is quite horrifically entirely intended and by design.

Healers are unnecessary.
Encounter design in this game is very rigid with almost no unpredictable damage spikes. Healing through or mitigating unavoidable damage could be handled by giving all jobs a PVP-style recuperate action and limited access to self-raises.

The game's core design itself doesn't want healers to exist. Healers themselves don't want to play the role. But for some reason we're forced to take them in our groups? Just rip the bandaid off.

[Silverbane]

To be quite honest, I would rather swim a mile in a sea of broken glass than be subjected to an hour of playing this game's healers.

LOL. Someone who doesn't play healers starts a thread advocating removing them from the game.
I stocked up on popcorn when I saw this thread launch, but I clearly didn't get enough.

OTOH, SGE is my favorite class to play (followed by SCH, WAR, and DNC, roughly in that order).
So obviously I do not want healers removed from the game.

But I'm not an endgame elitist suffering ennui: I'm just another subscriber playing through the MSQ for the fourth time in seven years, with the new perspective provided by the dislosures of Endwalker.

But as SE is quite aware, players like me pay the same subscription fee as the endgame elitists do. And there's probably more of us.

[Shuuli]

People can play AST and tell me its mind numbing.... I want to see how many actual AST players will come out and say that.

[Martynek]

LOL. Someone who doesn't play healers starts a thread advocating removing them from the game.

The only reason I can conclusively say that healers should be removed is because I have experience with them.
I violently regret every second I spent in that dreaded hellhole and if I could be granted any one wish, I would ask that I never wasted that time.

But I'm not an endgame elitist suffering ennui

What makes you think I am? Or is this just more of your crybullying - "If they disagree with me, it must be because they're a toxic elitist!" You've done this several times before and it's the same script each time. It's getting stale. Get some new material.

[Silverbane]

The only reason I can conclusively say that healers should be removed is because I have experience with them.
I violently regret every second I spent in that dreaded hellhole and if I could be granted any one wish, I would ask that I never wasted that time.

So what? The people I play with tried ninja and didn't like it; I personally haven't particularly enjoyed any of the melee DPS classes I've played. But you don't see me advocating removing melee DPS.

What makes you think I am?

I never said you were anything.
If I had, I might have said you were a troll, or a spoiled child.
But I didn't say that.

Other people like things you don't. Get over it.

[Martynek]

So what? The people I play with tried ninja and didn't like it; I personally haven't particularly enjoyed any of the melee DPS classes I've played. But you don't see me advocating removing melee DPS.
Other people like things you don't. Get over it.

You are not being forced to include Ninjas in your groups to be able to play the game. You are, however, forced to bring a healer. What if I want to play the game with my friends, but none of us want to play a healer? Should we just have to give in and knowingly subject one another to mental torture?
Other people do not like the things you do. Get over it.
This is a problem here because the healing role is so absurdly homogenised to the point that there might as well be only a single job within it - To further elaborate on that:

I want to put together a group for a raid.

I do not want to play a job that has frantic, high APM weaving windows every minute. I do not have to bring a Gunbreaker.
I do not want to play a job that has a rotation that is almost entirely expressed through powerful GCDs, with very infrequent usage of oGCD attacks. I do not have to bring a Warrior.
I do not want to play a job that fights exclusively in melee, with no way of keeping active at a distance. I do not have to bring a Monk.
I do not want to play a job that has a large amount of reliance on RNG to determine the flow of its rotation. I do not have to bring a Dancer.
I do not want to play a job with long cast times and little freeform mobility. I do not have to bring a Black Mage.
I do not want to play a job that spends 90% of its time pressing a single button, and another 9% of the time keeping up a single DoT. Well too bad, you WILL bring two healers. This is not optional.

So. Remove the healing role and improve the defensive toolkits of the remaining jobs to allow them to do without. It wouldn't even take a drastic redesign of the game systems or content.

[Ransu]

You've yet to clear endsinger ex and you've only cleared up to p2s on tank roles only. I don't think your opinion on healers really applies. Sorry, not sorry.

I do not want to play a job that spends 90% of its time pressing a single button, and another 9% of the time keeping up a single DoT. Well too bad, you WILL bring two healers. This is not optional.

By your logic we should just remove tanks as well.

As I said, you have four different gameplay options if you want to play the Tank role. You have one if you want to play the Healer role.
It would take minor changes to the defensive toolkits of DPS jobs to facilitate the removal of healers - But to facilitate the removal of tanks, you'd have to rebuild almost all of the game's content. Though I may wish otherwise, they aren't comparable.

There are 4 healer jobs that are either pure healers or shield healers....To say that the 4 tanks vary enough to facilitate such a ridiculous argument to remove healers is laughable. I repeat my earlier statement. Your opinion on healers is worthless.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

You are not being forced to include Ninjas in your groups to be able to play the game. You are, however, forced to bring a healer. What if I want to play the game with my friends, but none of us want to play a healer? Should we just have to give in and knowingly subject one another to mental torture?
Other people do not like the things you do. Get over it.
This is a problem here because the healing role is so absurdly homogenised to the point that there might as well be only a single job within it - To further elaborate on that:

I want to put together a group for a raid.

I do not want to play a job that has frantic, high APM weaving windows every minute. I do not have to bring a Gunbreaker.
I do not want to play a job that has a rotation that is almost entirely expressed through powerful GCDs, with very infrequent usage of oGCD attacks. I do not have to bring a Warrior.
I do not want to play a job that is exclusively melee-ranged, with no way of keeping active at a distance. I do not have to bring a Monk.
I do not want to play a job that has a large amount of reliance on RNG to determine the flow of its rotation. I do not have to bring a Dancer.
I do not want to play a job with long cast times and little freeform mobility. I do not have to bring a Black Mage.
I do not want to play a job that spends 90% of its time pressing a single button, and another 9% of the time keeping up a single DoT. Well too bad, you WILL bring two healers. This is not optional.

So. Remove the healing role and improve the defensive toolkits of the remaining jobs to allow them to do without. It wouldn't even take a drastic redesign of the game systems or content.

Only thing I see there is : "I do not want to play a job...."

You could have said : "I do not want to play." this would be the exact same.

Your personnal opinion on a job is a thing, every people should accept that other don't want to play a thing or not. But to just remove a class from the game because you don't like it ? I think people who like it will have much more weight over you. And even if those people keep complaining about healers, it's because they actually care of the Healer's role.

Silverbane put a good exemple with Melee DPS. It's not his playstyle, he don't like melee, maybe for various reason, who knows ? But he didn't advocate for removing Melee DPS, even by "having experience" with them.

If you want a game where healer isn't necessary, change game. What do you expect us to say aside from that, honestly ?

EDIT : Ransu, that's a sick burn. You made me laugh so hard. Thank you for making my day, mate

[QooEr]

People can play AST and tell me its mind numbing.... I want to see how many actual AST players will come out and say that.

its 15 seconds of carpal tunnel followed by 105 seconds of mind numbing malefic. once you get used to the muscle memory of the (re)opener its not so much exciting as it is tedious to weave 7+ things in quick succession because the job is severly lacking in QoL.

the EW changes made the cards somehow even more boring than in shadowbringers -- at least back in Shb you had to know exactly the perfect moment for giving a card depending on your party comp, there was actual planning involved for ast's gimmick. now its just save 3 cards for every divination window zzz...

i still like ast because unlike the other healers it still has some depth left in its healing kit with earthly star timings and macrocosmos planning, however healing is fight dependant and i might as well not exist as a healer in things like aglaia or an expert dungeon. healing alone should not be the only source of fun for a healer (emphasis on only. yes we're healers but sometimes theres just nothing to heal for one reason or another, so we need something else. its not that hard to understand).