Just remove healers.

[Silverbane]

for those of you replying to ..well. i won't even mention their name- don't.

I agree: stop embarrassing yourselves, whiners. You've got nothing rational to say, then say nothing. Stop wasting bandwidth at best and giving the forum moderator reasons to discipline you at worst.

I'm perfectly happy to let my Intended Audience evaluate my posts without some people's distortions and libels.

[IkaraGreydancer]

I agree: stop embarrassing yourselves, whiners. You've got nothing rational to say, then say nothing. Stop wasting bandwidth at best and giving the forum moderator reasons to discipline you at worst.

I'm perfectly happy to let my Intended Audience evaluate my posts without some people's distortions and libels.

Being real here, as someone who enjoys healing with certain jobs you're doing a tad bit to much. Forum mods would go after you for the stuff you're saying ironically so I wouldn't play that card.

Yes some of us enjoy healing. Yes some folks here have been asses to us for that. At the same time though throwing insults and such doesn't help our case. It only makes those folks dig their heels in further

[Nadda]

Just toss this in there I haven't had an issue playing White Mage. It feels pretty much the same to Shadowbringers minus the Thin Air change which no I just use lucid dreaming on cool down and thin air for a medica 2 for extra regen on pulls. Really miss Aero 3 because with big pulls I never seem to manage to dot everything before I have to go into holy spam. I didn't ever use Aero 3 as a lazy multi-dot either I liked to stack my dots but it gave me better coverage for those I missed... it just burned down mobs faster.

I don't know how much of the larger sentiment is shared among the community. Having played since HW I haven't felt the same things you others have. So its very difficult for me to relate.
Upon review, since I've only been on the forums for a short time one would think the world was on fire. I really don't feel that way. Impudent angry threads will not make SE listen. It also becomes very confusing the intent of threads like these where its "remove healers" but no not actually remove healers just listen, SE isn't listening now I'm angry... it's quite a lot.

My advice would actually be to make threads for them to stop developing new Jobs this is the only way of fixing the issues people want. List the benefit of this being to allow job identity breathing room with a dash of it will help developer costs. Yoshi-P already said in a recent interview they felt they had spent all they could on realizing most jobs in FF's history so they'd have to create newer ones in the future. We may be at a perfect place to tell them making newer jobs isn't necessary because it does take away focus from already existing jobs. If we present our issues this way. We may get a more positive response. If I was a dev and I saw threads like this I'd just think it's some angry elitists being angry and move on.

[IkaraGreydancer]

Just toss this in there I haven't had an issue playing White Mage. It feels pretty much the same to Shadowbringers minus the Thin Air change which no I just use lucid dreaming on cool down and thin air for a medica 2 for extra regen on pulls. Really miss Aero 3 because with big pulls I never seem to manage to dot everything before I have to go into holy spam. I didn't ever use Aero 3 as a lazy multi-dot either I liked to stack my dots but it gave me better coverage for those I missed... it just burned down mobs faster.

I don't know how much of the larger sentiment is shared among the community. Having played since HW I haven't felt the same things you others have. So its very difficult for me to relate.
Upon review, since I've only been on the forums for a short time one would think the world was on fire. I really don't feel that way. Impudent angry threads will not make SE listen. It also becomes very confusing the intent of threads like these where its "remove healers" but no not actually remove healers just listen, SE isn't listening now I'm angry... it's quite a lot.

My advice would actually be to make threads for them to stop developing new Jobs this is the only way of fixing the issues people want. List the benefit of this being to allow job identity breathing room with a dash of it will help developer costs. Yoshi-P already said in a recent interview they felt they had spent all they could on realizing most jobs in FF's history so they'd have to create newer ones in the future. We may be at a perfect place to tell them making newer jobs isn't necessary because it does take away focus from already existing jobs. If we present our issues this way. We may get a more positive response. If I was a dev and I saw threads like this I'd just think it's some angry elitists being angry and move on.

I'd love an new fresh job cause that'd allow me to see how the team would go about a job that doesnt have to tie to existing series lore if you will. Biggest part of reworking existing jobs is the fights themselves. It seems we're in an Era where folks don't care as much about balance and just want super unique classes. While that's not an issue I do worry about how that would effect content in the game going forward and what that'd do to the meta of the game. I'd rather not have a pvp situation where classes feel unique but you know you'll most likely lose if you see a certain comp on the other team or in the pve case know you aren't doing nearly as much as another class due to that class have far better or more unique tools. This generally creates situations where everything is either tightly balanced or mad broken

[Nadda]

I'd love an new fresh job cause that'd allow me to see how the team would go about a job that don't have to tie to existing series lore if you will. Biggest from reworking old jobs is the fights themselves. It seems we're in an Era where folks don't care as much about balance and just want super unique classes. While that's not an issue I so worry about how that would effect content in the game going forward and what that'd do to the meta of the game. I'd rather not have a pvp situation where classes feel unique but you know you'll most likely lose if you see a certain comp on the other team

That's a good point. My major concern is that the reason there is a lot of parity and homogenization is actually that they keep adding classes so in an effort of making things balanced pre-existing jobs start to lose a lot of their identity. As much as I'd like to see a new casting DPS Time Mage with cool raid buff mechanics like Last Quicken to allow a target party members cooldowns to be refreshed at low health. Or Beast Master (which I'd actually like to see with REAL pets not just some cop out)

[IkaraGreydancer]

That's a good point. My major concern is that the reason there is a lot of parity and homogenization is actually that they keep adding classes so in an effort of making things balanced pre-existing jobs start to lose a lot of their identity. As much as I'd like to see a new casting DPS Time Mage with cool raid buff mechanics like Last Quicken to allow a target party members cooldowns to be refreshed at low health. Or Beast Master (which I'd actually like to see with REAL pets not just some cop out)

I personally think we'll see quite a few changes ome 7.0 what with the graphical update and such. It'd be the perfect way to usher in a new Era of the game at large. The foundation of our new adventure from post EW would be set by then making it the opertune time. Call it wishful thinking but hey, doesn't hurt. I personally want a sure DoT class myself

[Nadda]

I personally think we'll see quite a few changes ome 7.0 what with the graphical update and such. It'd be the perfect way to usher in a new Era of the game at large. The foundation of our new adventure from post EW would be set by then making it the opertune time. Call it wishful thinking but hey, doesn't hurt. I personally want a sure DoT class myself

I mean to be fair what with it being a new adventure and all we could maybe even get new encounter designs. I am hopeful for this game. I definitely don't like that they took away the dots. So we will see.
I do not share in the sentiment things are all doom and gloom. For the first time ever I've had a strong urge to push myself into Savage and Ultimates more often. Maybe that was the Devs intent.

[Renathras]

Because in the original message...

I talked about clears, not world first races. Though I suppose mixing that up isn't really beyond the pale, so it's fine. But no, I wasn't talking about world first, and honestly see no reason to - people aren't complaining about healers in world first (or prog in general), so it's not really relevant in either case. It's farming/reclearing that people seem to have issue with. Agreed?

No? I'm saying that a focus on a more GCD healing...

My mistake. I saw where you mentioned (don't feel like going back to quote it now, but can if you want) that our "rotation" (I believe you did put it in quotes) is supposed to be GCD healing, but that the game doesn't have us use it, therefore, we spam Glare instead. A position I agree with. I was thinking that might mean you agreed with me that we need more required and engaging GCD heal gameplay on our healer classes. But you meant the opposite, I guess? Sorry for misunderstanding there.
[NOTE: In case you think otherwise, this isn't sarcasm. I was thinking you were agreeing with me on that.]

I should also note that these Devs HAVE shown a capacity to put in pseudo-randomness into encounters. They just tend not to do it much. For example, SoSEx's micro-phases hitting in whatever order they damn well please. General feedback on that encounter was that people seemed to overall love it. For that reason. Well, and also the thematic/story reason.

My point with all of that is precisely that all the discussion of balance...

Fair enough. But this has largely been my own argument, has it not? To have four variations of DPS across the four healers and let people gravitate to the one they like best.

And Sage has too, also depends on the encounter...

That's fair. I'll grant part of this is muscle memory/experience with SCH makes it feel far easier to me, but I will grant it took me a while to get to that point. So I could see SGE being "easier" in that sense. I still find SCH far more versatile, which is why I prefer it between the two. But I can see your argument as well. SGE feels better when things are under control, SCH feels better when they are not.

[Renathras]

I'd love an new fresh job cause that'd allow me to see how the team would go about a job that doesnt have to tie to existing series lore if you will.

But that's what they did with SGE. FFXIV's SGE is nothing like the normal FF series Sage, which more or less an advanced arch-wizard. Thing RDM without melee that has more BLM and WHM spells. Or think of taking a BLM and WHM and smashing them together. That's arguably what a Sage generally is. FFXIV's SGE is more a Greek doctor with magic foci that double as AERODs (Xenogears) or Gundam laser things. And I'm not saying that's bad, just it's effectively a brand new thing to FF as the closest thing to it that I can really think of is Elly's Gear from Xenogears, which IS a Square title, but at best, Final Fantasy-adjacent.

So they had a total free hand, and the Kardia mechanic was a nice way to mix things up and IS unique to the healers...the problem is, they didn't go all the way with it. Once they put that in place, basically setting up for something like a WoW Discipline Priest or RIFT Chloromancer...they then gave it a pretty standard GCD heal kit and copied over most of SCH's abilities with some variation, and then gave it a DoT+Spamnuke DPS rotation. I have no idea why, since they were already breaking new ground with the Job, so making it a hybrid WHM/SCH clone just seems an odd design decision.

Biggest part of reworking existing jobs...

Agreed. That's only true for the moment BECAUSE everything is so balanced and people are complaining about blandness and homogeneity. But the thing is, it's only so balanced because of the blandness and homogeneity. So people are complaining about uniqueness from a place of balance. It'd be kind of like a rich person complaining about not having enough things to spend their money on and insisting they don't care about how much money they have; they're only doing that BECAUSE they have so much money to spend. Take all their money and see how quickly their complaint changes to wanting more money and things to cost less. Likewise, people are complaining about homogeneity and saying they don't care about balance...but how much of that is BECAUSE things are so well balanced?

If we shift to uniqueness but it drives imbalance, would that shift, I wonder?

And for the record: I'm not making a statement either way. I genuinely don't know for sure...

[Nadda]

Fair enough. But this has largely been my own argument, has it not? To have four variations of DPS across the four healers and let people gravitate to the one they like best.

Sadly I think that would still end up with White mage being in the same state it is now. Which is how it has been in the past. People never seemed to mind that as much before. I wonder why...

But that's what they did with SGE. FFXIV's SGE is nothing like the normal FF series Sage, which more or less an advanced arch-wizard. Thing RDM without melee that has more BLM and WHM spells. Or think of taking a BLM and WHM and smashing them together. That's arguably what a Sage generally is. FFXIV's SGE is more a Greek doctor with magic foci that double as AERODs (Xenogears) or Gundam laser things.

Off-topic but can I add Red Mage was the only job I ever looked forward to being added to the game and was disappointed by it. It's supposed to be a jack of all trades but really feels like Black Mage with more utility and a melee rotation tacked in at the end instead of a mix of White Mage and Black Mage. But people love it for some reason... I can understand the utility. People really love their weird janky job gauges I don't really understand it. I mean I think they are cool mechanic, but people have an odd obsession with them.