"balancing" some jobs

[Petite]

Dude you call gserpent a troll but he logically responded to each of your complaints. I think it's you man.

They really do sound like a troll though. By most people’s standards, they spout thoughtless takes one after the other and has no self-awareness. It’s fine to be wrong on occasion, but they’re different and will argue semantics to the bitter end instead of reflecting on their statements.

Here are just 3 recent examples of the takes they proudly proclaim, two of them on this very thread :

’’Shukuchi sucks for escaping’’
I’ve played a lot of NIN and I know for a fact that Shukuchi is hands down the best escape ability in PvP.

’’NIN damage is by far the lowest’’
No.
- NIN’s 1-target burst very potent with a simple Bunshin>Assassinate>Mug>Mudra setup;
- NIN can AOE very well because of Goka being a 20K AOE dot;
- If their team is focusing a target, a NIN can simply Mug>Forked Raiju>Fleeting Raiju them for an instant 4 seconds-long double-stun, leading to an easy kill or a Purify burn.
- NINs worth their salt fight out of melee range 90% of the time which makes them the safest melee to play, especially when you consider shukuchi.
- Finally, if you don’t think NIN’s LB is a little busted, you’re probably a NIN main.

’’WHM LB is fine’’
I won’t entertain this statement.

There are a ton more such takes, but I think I proved my point enough. That’s why I now choose not to reply to them as I learned why people called them a troll. You might think it’s not in the spirit of a forum to ignore someone, but as I already explained, I avoid nailing Jell-o to walls.
I’m not here to tell you what to think. I’m explaining why their reputation precedes them.

[SweetPete]

You guys forgetting. Astro is the hidden gem here. They are extremely overpowered. I am saying this as someone who mains it in PvP. I can literally not be killed even when all 5 are on me. They can turn the tides of battle so fast it will make your head spin. Talking about War, Whm, Nin etc. Need to be looking at Astro.

[Cheremia]

You guys forgetting. Astro is the hidden gem here. They are extremely overpowered. I am saying this as someone who mains it in PvP. I can literally not be killed even when all 5 are on me. They can turn the tides of battle so fast it will make your head spin. Talking about War, Whm, Nin etc. Need to be looking at Astro.

Not disagreeing with ast being strong but there is no way you can „not die“ when 5 people focus you. Unless they are asleep. You can survive it a bit if they dont want to waste many resources on only you, but unkillable is very overblown and untrue.

Thats not how it works.

Ast is really good tho.

Nin is fine and needs people rapidly being under 50% and staying under it.
Just because theres good people out there doesnt make it op.

Whats a nin gonna do if the team doesnt help soften people? Kill one person with it, cool. Nin being called op just goes to show how people either:
A: Do not recup
B: Recup way too much for way too little damage, so they run out of mp
C: Not guard early enough so they eat damage
D: Do not retreat to pot.
All of that are issues (i'm not perfect, happens to everybody, especially the guard thing) that happen to many people. It's not nins fault that people are too afraid to heal and run in with barely mp, just to get ganged up on and killed by the nin.

War is weak, whm has barely any pressure and if people wouldnt line up in the middle of hallways, their lb is garbage.

Poly needs to be purifyable tho.

Edit: You also have to factor in if nin wastes their lb or not.
Yes, that is a big factor. With how strong people can be with ganging up on single people, you can just fall over from being nuked (happens to me sometimes, i just... fall over). If a nin choses to lb kill them for whatever reason, it's wasted.
They HAVE to soften up somebody else as fast as possible after. Do they manage alone?
If the enemy doesnt fight back at all, maybe.
If they run and heal or get stunned themself by the enemy team, then no, absolutely not.

If you all run around with no mp and no hp, that means that you are losing this engagement and you chose to not retreat, you deserve to be chain lb'ed by a nin. Because at this point, anybody of the enemy team can kill you, too.

[TheGrimace]

Shukuchi is good when it works, but there are plenty of tines where I will use it and immediately have cover blown due to AOE or having a cast on me land. In which case, I'm often a sitting duck. It absolutely has helped me get away from enemy parties in the past, but it's never a guarantee and fails as an escape just as much.

[Ransu]

They really do sound like a troll though. By most people’s standards, they spout thoughtless takes one after the other and has no self-awareness. It’s fine to be wrong on occasion, but they’re different and will argue semantics to the bitter end instead of reflecting on their statements.

Here are just 3 recent examples of the takes they proudly proclaim, two of them on this very thread :

’’Shukuchi sucks for escaping’’
I’ve played a lot of NIN and I know for a fact that Shukuchi is hands down the best escape ability in PvP.

’’NIN damage is by far the lowest’’
No.
- NIN’s 1-target burst very potent with a simple Bunshin>Assassinate>Mug>Mudra setup;
- NIN can AOE very well because of Goka being a 20K AOE dot;
- If their team is focusing a target, a NIN can simply Mug>Forked Raiju>Fleeting Raiju them for an instant 4 seconds-long double-stun, leading to an easy kill or a Purify burn.
- NINs worth their salt fight out of melee range 90% of the time which makes them the safest melee to play, especially when you consider shukuchi.
- Finally, if you don’t think NIN’s LB is a little busted, you’re probably a NIN main.

’’WHM LB is fine’’
I won’t entertain this statement.

There are a ton more such takes, but I think I proved my point enough. That’s why I now choose not to reply to them as I learned why people called them a troll. You might think it’s not in the spirit of a forum to ignore someone, but as I already explained, I avoid nailing Jell-o to walls.
I’m not here to tell you what to think. I’m explaining why their reputation precedes them.

He's also the same guy who said fire was viable for BLM lol. Take anything gserpent says with a grain of salt.

Shukuchi is good when it works, but there are plenty of tines where I will use it and immediately have cover blown due to AOE or having a cast on me land. In which case, I'm often a sitting duck. It absolutely has helped me get away from enemy parties in the past, but it's never a guarantee and fails as an escape just as much.

If you use it right 99% of the time it works perfectly as an escape. Yes the tick rate will take you out of stealth sometimes which sucks, but with sprint you're already far enough away anyways that it doesn't matter.

[Bureda]

They really do sound like a troll though. By most people’s standards, they spout thoughtless takes one after the other and has no self-awareness. It’s fine to be wrong on occasion, but they’re different and will argue semantics to the bitter end instead of reflecting on their statements.

Here are just 3 recent examples of the takes they proudly proclaim, two of them on this very thread :

’’Shukuchi sucks for escaping’’
I’ve played a lot of NIN and I know for a fact that Shukuchi is hands down the best escape ability in PvP.

’’NIN damage is by far the lowest’’
No.
- NIN’s 1-target burst very potent with a simple Bunshin>Assassinate>Mug>Mudra setup;
- NIN can AOE very well because of Goka being a 20K AOE dot;
- If their team is focusing a target, a NIN can simply Mug>Forked Raiju>Fleeting Raiju them for an instant 4 seconds-long double-stun, leading to an easy kill or a Purify burn.
- NINs worth their salt fight out of melee range 90% of the time which makes them the safest melee to play, especially when you consider shukuchi.
- Finally, if you don’t think NIN’s LB is a little busted, you’re probably a NIN main.

’’WHM LB is fine’’
I won’t entertain this statement.

There are a ton more such takes, but I think I proved my point enough. That’s why I now choose not to reply to them as I learned why people called them a troll. You might think it’s not in the spirit of a forum to ignore someone, but as I already explained, I avoid nailing Jell-o to walls.
I’m not here to tell you what to think. I’m explaining why their reputation precedes them.

Someone smells like a hater!

Apparently when a team focuses a person, the Ninja caused it. Damn that NIN kit is so busted!

Ninja literally cannot stand toe to toe against other melee and has to kite.
Let's ignore the fact that everything and their mum has AOE's with questionable range or hit rate due to server ticks that makes Stealth the clunkiest mechanic in the game.

Calling people trolls but here you are trolling trying to justify your inadequacy.

Nice!

[Ransu]

Someone smells like a hater!

Apparently when a team focuses a person, the Ninja caused it. Damn that NIN kit is so busted!

Ninja literally cannot stand toe to toe against other melee and has to kite.
Let's ignore the fact that everything and their mum has AOE's with questionable range or hit rate due to server ticks that makes Stealth the clunkiest mechanic in the game.

Calling people trolls but here you are trolling trying to justify your inadequacy.

Nice!

Sounds like you don't really know how to play NIN.

[SweetPete]

Not disagreeing with ast being strong but there is no way you can „not die“ when 5 people focus you. Unless they are asleep. You can survive it a bit if they dont want to waste many resources on only you, but unkillable is very overblown and untrue.

It’s happened. Many times. Maybe they blew their stuns/silence/Poly on my other teammates and when they came for me they had no CC. It’s happened. I’ve survived. Aspected benefic is instant and can double cast it for shield also using macrocosmos while running towards a potion if I am out of mana for recuperate. I’ve seen Whm do it as well. I’m not saying every match I was that lucky. If I am CC well then yeah of course I’ll die like anyone but it’s very rare that I die when I play Ast.

[IDontPetLalas]

@Gserpent
Just looking at your Post History shows that you are a troll, bad one at that. Trying to call my "skill" into the argument only augments the fact that your opinion is invalid, I'm on high diamond and most of my friends that play at high level are at 2k range on crystal.
The fact that you are taking SINGLE player's damage into consideration shows that you don't understand the nature of the game in a high level, in coordinated play you can EASILY dogpile a player and burst them in less than a GCD, it's not the single job that matters, it's the team's, CC is even more OP when you take coordinated play where you can easily bait a purify and explode someone after that.
And saying that DNC is strong in a coordinated team is the equivalent of saying it is good in "Catch the ball faster", we don't have a queueable mode with a coordinated team so once again, it is invalid for the current modes we have available.
All those jobs are meta for a reason, they are clear OP to a point that most players that are on top 100 are one of those jobs.
Anyway, not gonna entertain you and your attempts at trolling.

You realize that you just contradicted yourself? When it comes to WHM, you're stating that one skill is OP because it needs to be considered in coordinated play. On the other hand, when it comes to DNC, you state that it shouldn't be considered strong in the context of coordinated play since we don't have a mode with a coordinated team.


You can't have it both ways i.e. you either recognize that CC is in a coordinated mode or not, and Gserpent has made some valid points regarding the various jobs - if anything I would disagree with the comment rom Raraka about polymorph and cheats- that is a legitimate complaint but it has nothing whatsoever to do with balance.

[Ransu]

You realize that you just contradicted yourself? When it comes to WHM, you're stating that one skill is OP because it needs to be considered in coordinated play. On the other hand, when it comes to DNC, you state that it shouldn't be considered strong in the context of coordinated play since we don't have a mode with a coordinated team.


You can't have it both ways i.e. you either recognize that CC is in a coordinated mode or not, and Gserpent has made some valid points regarding the various jobs - if anything I would disagree with the comment rom Raraka about polymorph and cheats- that is a legitimate complaint but it has nothing whatsoever to do with balance.

WHM LB does a line attack for 18k potency, causes a stun, increases the damage the whm does to the target and increases its healing and gives a heal to the party.

DNC....charms the enemy team for 2s.......

To even try to make a comparison between the two is laughable.