Thread: 6.1 Kaiten Changes

It did mess with my memory but I'm getting used to it. Can weave in other things to try to make up for the damage loss.

Still, Kaiten could be reworked into an OGCD self-damage increasing stack with 120 sec cooldown. Four stacks, can be used on any weaponskill until the stacks deplete, but skilled players can line it up with quadruple midare or something more efficient.

Originally Posted by Tracewood

Kaiten could be reworked into an OGCD self-damage increasing stack with 120 sec cooldown. Four stacks, can be used on any weaponskill until the stacks deplete, but skilled players can line it up with quadruple midare or something more efficient.

This is just a more awkward version of Bunshin which already started off awkward and went through several iterations to arrive where it is now. We need a reversion to 6.08 SAM posthaste before any further "reworks" butcher the job beyond recognition.

Originally Posted by Reese_Clairdale

This is just a more awkward version of Bunshin which already started off awkward and went through several iterations to arrive where it is now. We need a reversion to 6.08 SAM posthaste before any further "reworks" butcher the job beyond recognition.

it's actually scary to think that your job can be butchered quite easily and not hear anything from it for 4 months.
it's also scary that if it's an hole they dug themselves they're more than willing to sacrifice the player experience so that their job can be slightly easier.

my opinion is that they should've waited with Kaitens removal till 7.0 (honestly any major rework apart from machinist, since that job is just in a bad spot)
get everything in the back end ready for 7.0, kaiten removal but a rework to make sure this doesn't happen and then when 7.0 announcements happen they can show off the changes and it will actually be cool unlike what happened with Endwalker.
where it just felt like they were upgrading existing moves and not really adding anything new to the mix.

like with the Dark Knight portion where it was obvious how little actually got changed, same for Scholar.
if they pool all these reworks into 7.0, then they got around a month before the 1st savage tier to get some fine tuning done and the media tour will then serve as an play test for the new system.

but instead they're slowly rolling these unfinished changes to the public and then act surprised when the backlash is massive.
like when Kaitens removal was announced the twitch chat DEMANDED the person in charge to explain why, which Yoshi just responded with "i gave the final OK to these changes" ... that's fine and all, but why was this even concidered?

100% agree that whatever fundamental gameplay changes they had in mind, they should have withheld job changes in that direction until 7.0.

However, now that some of the plan has been laid bare, I would still rather not entertain the idea that Kaiten's removal, or Tenka Goken becoming a circle, will eventually make sense at some undetermined point in time in 6.2, 7.0, 8.0, 12.0, or whenever. I can only work with the knowledge and experience I have in the present, I am merely one customer with no inside developer info or contacts. As the game is now, the changes show complete disregard for the time of veterans who were invested in the job, and new players seeking a job with different flavor.

It is extremely important to push back right now not just because the devs requested it, or that the reversion of SAM would fix it in the short term, but because it would show that the devs are willing to admit they made a genuine mistake, and that they need to reevaluate whatever changes they had planned for all jobs in the future, not just for SAM. It would go a long way to restoring some trust, and would be more proof that the devs won't fall to the same hubris that eventually destroyed World of Warcraft.

All I'm hearing from sam players rn is that it feels more like mch than sam. Lots of oGCD spamming. Then again, mch does actually have some responses to manage (pooling heat/battery) whereas sam is just shintenshintenshintenshintenshintenshineten.

If kaiten was "holding" the designers back from a job design perspective, fair enough, but dont remove it mid patch cycle then pretend like theres not a huge gaping hole in the job. Maybe a rework without kaiten but with another spender will add that depth in a future rework but I'm not holding my breath. I'm not a fan of the change, and I applaud people for calling sqex on it, but after this times passed I dont think itll be coming back