Targeted mitigation often does not work

[Chopstix]

talking about addle, feint and reprisal

there isn't even a way to tell w/o a combat logger

reason for all this is that even though the animation might be coming straight from the boss, the actual dmg source is an entirely different entity that is often not targetable, let alone existing anywhere in the arena

seems like strange coding to me, or is this in fact intentional? to herd the group to use one of the 3 elsewhere? but again, it happens often that there is nothing to use it on for a rather long time, and how the heck r u gonna tell in the first place w/o a third party tool

reprisal in particular, u have 2 in a group both on a minute CD, guess i'm just gonna mitigate some autos? or not even because boss is casting but the dmg isn't even coming from them

wishful thinking but some positive change here would be nice

/rant over

[Greyhawk]

It also never feels like basic healing mitigation ever works either. Things like AoE mitigation to protect the party. It never really feels like it does any mitigation at all, and is just there to cast, yet do nothing to help. I am sure it's helping in the grand scheme of things, but it never really just feels like it does. You can see Reprisal numbers just off watching the damage ticks that are built in game. You can watch a mob hit you for 2k, then apply a mitigation and see that number average drop for the duration. I wish the same would apply on a mitigated strike that a healer put on to show it, but I have yet to see anything to tell.

[Deceptus]

It also never feels like basic healing mitigation ever works either. Things like AoE mitigation to protect the party. It never really feels like it does any mitigation at all, and is just there to cast, yet do nothing to help. I am sure it's helping in the grand scheme of things, but it never really just feels like it does. You can see Reprisal numbers just off watching the damage ticks that are built in game. You can watch a mob hit you for 2k, then apply a mitigation and see that number average drop for the duration. I wish the same would apply on a mitigated strike that a healer put on to show it, but I have yet to see anything to tell.

Worst thing is the way shields are applied. They're not applied to everyone all at once because of the sh!tty netcode / game engine.

Nope, they're applied from the top of the party list to the bottom one at a time.

So if you're not fast with your cast you can literally have certain people get the mitigation and some not. Sometimes it can take a whole second from the time your cast goes off until party member 8 is shielded. Which make party order super important for a healer!

I honestly think that mitigation is similar. If you to time it RIGHT before the ability goes off, even if it shows the debuff icon on the boss, the game might not register it always due to netcode latency.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the game basically does a coinflip on the Ultimate End cast. Sometimes it comes from Thordan, and sometimes, it comes from one of his untargetable knights, despite Thordan always being the actor who casts Ultimate End on the enmity list. This makes all debuff based mitigation totally useless sometimes on one the hardest hitting attacks in the entire fight, placed right before you need every member alive to take advantage of Thordan's damage taken up debuff.

I wonder if that's intended or not (a bug perhaps?), because that seems extremely cheap on a mode that is supposed to be tightly balanced.

Hell, damage shouldn't even be abled to have a "high roll". It should be static. Consistent. You know what to expect and how to properly plan your CD's appropriately.

[Avidria]

Worst thing is the way shields are applied. They're not applied to everyone all at once because of the sh!tty netcode / game engine.

Nope, they're applied from the top of the party list to the bottom one at a time.

So if you're not fast with your cast you can literally have certain people get the mitigation and some not.

I honestly think that mitigation is similar. If you to time it RIGHT before the ability goes off, even if it shows the debuff icon on the boss, the game might not register it always due to netcode latency.

I didn't realize this and it... Explains a lot actually lmao

I mean it's terrible and annoying but also pretty funny

[Chopstix]

If it can hit casters it's usually magic damage because SE has to account for casters having higher magic defense. Addle and feint mitigate both now so it will work with either damage type.

u may be used to more regular content where magic/phys dmg distinction does not matter at all tbh... several folks pointed this out already but ill say it too, DSR especially has some nasty physical dmg aoes that absolutely decimate healers, the light party stacks in p2 thordan, and the mirage dives on p4 eyes r just two examples, i use bloodwhetting on my healer every time so that they dont die to the disgusting dmg variance, u cant expect unavoidable dmg to always be magical, gotta rely on third party tools to tell whats what

also while feint and addle technically work on everything, dont forget the weaker element they target is only half as effective... 5% mit is not particularly great, it is pretty much just in the "good luck" category

Worst thing is the way shields are applied. They're not applied to everyone all at once because of the sh!tty netcode / game engine.

Nope, they're applied from the top of the party list to the bottom one at a time.

So if you're not fast with your cast you can literally have certain people get the mitigation and some not. Sometimes it can take a whole second from the time your cast goes off until party member 8 is shielded. Which make party order super important for a healer!

I honestly think that mitigation is similar. If you to time it RIGHT before the ability goes off, even if it shows the debuff icon on the boss, the game might not register it always due to netcode latency.

i find this ripple effect annoying as well, but it is something that can be fixed easily, simply pop it earlier

there is absolutely no reason to use stuff last second, reprisal e.g. is pretty slow to get applied for some reason (CD is at 59 by the time the debuff finally appears), best case scenario u mitigate an extra auto by 10%, yayyy!!! worst case, someone dies

[OdinelStarrei]

This is a pertinent topic actually for me personally. During Dragonsong Ultimate, I'm sure everyone by now has seen the Ultimate End cast. Unlike other versions of Thordan, during this Ultimate End, Thordan is targetable, and thus able to be inflicted with Addle, Reprisal, etc etc. Due to Ultimate End hitting the non-tanks for around 96,000 damage, it is mandatory that you have both shielding, and multiple forms of damage mitigation. So, we set up more soft, but frequent debuff-based mitigation options to make the transition into Final Chorus (around 95,000 damage) and the following Eye of the Tyrant less painful for our healers. However, during my progression after I had already mathematically discovered the bare minimum of mitigation/shielding needed, there were occasions where multiple party members would die anyway, and not by a few hundred, by thousands, far beyond what typical damage variance would be from a high-roll. And it would be almost like we were missing Addle, Feint, and Reprisal, even though all of those debuffs were clearly applied far before the castbar ended.

Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the game basically does a coinflip on the Ultimate End cast. Sometimes it comes from Thordan, and sometimes, it comes from one of his untargetable knights, despite Thordan always being the actor who casts Ultimate End on the enmity list. This makes all debuff based mitigation totally useless sometimes on one the hardest hitting attacks in the entire fight, placed right before you need every member alive to take advantage of Thordan's damage taken up debuff.

We moved things around, added more shielding for the squishiest of party members, but it doesn't change the fact that that is stupid, and not telegraphed whatsoever.

[Chopstix]

It also never feels like basicsnip1.

u may rest in piece that mitigation in the form of buffs always works (assuming it is magic dmg, yup there is some physical party dmg things too so anything that is magic dmg buff only, wont work sadly), it is hard to tell if any one does anything as there is the usual 95%-105% dmg variance even on raidwides (which is pretty dumb tbh), but u will quickly notice the difference when u have plenty and just short, some or all of ur non tanks will die

snip2.

there is no castbar for ultimate end (unless im completely crazy), i had to look at logs to figure out when it actually snapshots which is also completely retarded as otherwise u need to guess by trial and error... yeah no ty

i had some weird cases where like 2 members benefitted from reprisal, while the other 6 did not... it was rather mindboggling

to be safe, the 10 sec targeted mitigation needs to be applied after 3rd GCD, i think 5th is too late

[Jeeqbit]

I can't begin to count the number of times Reprisal has saved a party from wiping, even in dungeons. When you use it and the party survives with 1% health you know that you saved them. Just use it before an aoe cast ends.

It's intentional because some boss casts spawn other entities. If the entity is somewhere else (you can see if an entity spawns in the enemy list), then just use it on something else. You can use area mitigation such as Troubadour, Tactician, Shield Samba, Divine Veil, Passage of Arms, Shake It Off, Dark Missionary, Heart Of Light or any healer mitigation.

At least in old fights, it's not intended to herd the group to use them on different enemies, because not everyone used to have it in the past at least without leveling other jobs to cross-class with.

[Chopstix]

I can't begin to count the number of times Reprisal has saved a party from wiping, even in dungeons. When you use it and the party survives with 1% health you know that you saved them. Just use it before an aoe cast ends.

It's intentional because some boss casts spawn other entities. If the entity is somewhere else (you can see if an entity spawns in the enemy list), then just use it on something else. You can use area mitigation such as Troubadour, Tactician, Shield Samba, Divine Veil, Passage of Arms, Shake It Off, Dark Missionary, Heart Of Light or any healer mitigation.

At least in old fights, it's not intended to herd the group to use them on different enemies, because not everyone used to have it in the past at least without leveling other jobs to cross-class with.

if u use reprisal too late, it will be not there in time since it is notoriously slow to get applied... the reason u survived by 1% is because there was nothing there

anyroad, DSR p6 with the dragons... i have nothing to use reprisal on until half the fight is done, the first set of cones comes quite literally from the two dragons, but no reprisal does not work, it also does not work on the busters either (thats cause they r coming from some combination of the 12 knights who r nowhere to be seen, makes sense, right?)

[Jeeqbit]

if u use reprisal too late, it will be not there in time since it is notoriously slow to get applied... the reason u survived by 1% is because there was nothing there

Just need to use it before the cast ends, like with dodging an aoe or interrupting a cast.

But I am not talking about DSR specifically. If that is happening a lot in DSR then the party mitigation I referred to would probably work better.