Dynamis - Limit Breaks

[SeiyaSoiya]

Let's be honest, the devs are pushing very hard on the Dynamis = Power of the heart and friendship = limit break

you can hide it all you want in The Omega Protocol with "Run: ****mi*" but when Hello Distant World and Hello Near World gives you a stack of Dynamis, it's pretty clear what the asterisks word is

Not to mention in the final phase when you cast a limit break 3 it turns the 3 stacks of dynamis into radiant dynamis, then gives you back 3 bars of limit break, and you have to use 8 total limit breaks in the entire phase

[Cleretic]

Let's be honest, the devs are pushing very hard on the Dynamis = Power of the heart and friendship = limit break

you can hide it all you want in The Omega Protocol with "Run: ****mi*" but when Hello Distant World and Hello Near World gives you a stack of Dynamis, it's pretty clear what the asterisks word is

Not to mention in the final phase when you cast a limit break 3 it turns the 3 stacks of dynamis into radiant dynamis, then gives you back 3 bars of limit break, and you have to use 8 total limit breaks in the entire phase

And yet, we have explanations for every single limit break as of Stormblood in the Encyclopedia Eorzea, and very few of them are actually described in a way that suggests we're using dynamis at all. In fact, most of them are described in ways that point to an entirely different confirmed in-universe phenomena: the highly active aether of battlefields that's described in the Monk questline.

I think this easily-debunked assurance of 'all LBs are dynamis because it's cool' isn't just really frustrating when it comes to discussing concrete facts, because it ignores them and introduces multiple plot holes (namely, the Ktisis Trusts and Seat of Sacrifice boss being capable of LBs despite explicitly not being able to manipulate dynamis), it also poisons the well of discussing the other things that legitimately do seem like they could be dynamis, but are less flashy. Manawall's Encyclopedia Eorzea description makes it a prime contender to me, but we're not going to get to that point until people stop ignoring all non-circumstantial evidence to claim that Meteor is, because that sounds cool!

The one thing I'd give is that a couple times, there are LBs that seem to be jacked up with dynamis. Specifically:
1. That one LB in the Endsinger fight, but it's in a space where basically everything is dynamis-powered, so it's not exactly special. (This may debatably mean that all LBs in the Stigma Dreamscape count too if you really want them.)
2. Rhitatyn's post-revamp attack buff, maybe. He might just be really mad.

TOP cannot be admitted into evidence, because it's in-universe what-if fanfiction written by the Wandering Minstrel, a man who has no real credibility on the subject. It's fake even in-universe, it'd be like arguing real-world scientific theory based on an Avengers movie.

[RyuDragnier]

And yet, we have explanations for every single limit break as of Stormblood in the Encyclopedia Eorzea, and very few of them are actually described in a way that suggests we're using dynamis at all. In fact, most of them are described in ways that point to an entirely different confirmed in-universe phenomena: the highly active aether of battlefields that's described in the Monk questline.

Wasn't it mentioned by the devs themselves that the EE are basically written as if they were in the game itself, using information that the scholars who wrote it would have access to? That's mostly just to clarify that the EE can and is modified as need be. As for the aether of battlefields, said battlefields also cause surges in emotions, which also make dynamis a factor. Note that I say factor, because it's not the only thing.

[Lyth]

I'm sure that classical physicists carried the same sorts of objections to quantum mechanics and relativity. 'But according to Newton's Principia...'

Remember that the EE v.1 has Warriors manipulating the aether of their teammates to crystalize it into a wall during Land Waker, bringing the full magical acumen of a single digit INT score to bear. And then there's the Endsinger fight, where Land Waker is one of the four ways that you can mitigate Oblivion/Ultimate Fate and get that 'Dynamis?' line. Could it be aether augmented by dynamis? Perhaps, but as far as we know, large amounts of aether interferes with the manifestation of dynamis. So for the time being, I think it's more likely to be a manifestation of one or the other. In the case of the tanks, at least, I can see how their various limit breaks could be dynamis mediated effects when pushed to the brink.

You do have to evaluate individual effects on a case by case basis and keep an open mind. The alarum at Kitisis generates a magical damping field that suppresses anyone present who is not staff at the facility to a fraction of their ability. It's a plot convenience to explain the gameplay, but could that dampening field unlock a potential dynamis effect? Or perhaps some limit breaks are dynamis and some are aether (Emet does use the voiceline 'Mine is the Aether!' on occasion when activating Skyshard).

When Elidibus unmerged from Zodiark, did he still have the same aetheric constitution of an Amaurotine, or was he functionally closer to a hemitheos? If it's the latter, could it explain the various limit breaks? He's fairly good at reproducing magical techniques that he's observed before without knowing the specifics, as we've seen from his interactions with both Eric and G'raha, so perhaps he's using aetheric methods to attempt to replicate an observed dynamis effect. It's hard to say for definite without more information.

Ultimately, though, I do think you have to treat the EE as if it was written from the perspective of an in-universe entity with human knowledge, rather than as a divine text. And until recently, we were all under the mistaken belief that aether was responsible for all natural phenomena.

[Cleretic]

If you want to argue 'the Encyclopedia Eorzea might be wrong', that's certainly an angle, but we need to admit alternative sources of information in. Not just because we get nothing by just looking at a source and saying 'nuh-uh' with no regard, but also because this isn't a one-source thing; that one source happens to have the most exhaustive explanation, but it's not the only thing saying that LBs are not necessarily using dynamis. And here, the other subjects to consider are that the Ktisis Hyperborea Trust NPCs, and the boss of the Seat of Sacrifice, can all use LBs despite being baseline biologically incapable of manipulating dynamis.

We can't try to bring 'Ktisis' dampener means they can manipulate dynamis' in, either; not only does that have absolutely no evidence to it, but the lines they say alongside these LBs don't imply any surprise in or newness to this situation (well, Hyth is surprised you let him do it, but that's different). In fact, as Lyth pointed out, Emet very directly cites aether as his power source. The Trust Insighters people have actually transcribed every single quote for Venat and Hythlodaeus in all languages (not Emet, for some reason), so you can see for yourself:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=856154097

No matter what, we're in a state where neither the amount of dynamis and non-dynamis LBs are at 0% or 100%; some LBs cannot possibly be dynamis, while at least one LB, the one against the Endsinger, definitely is (however, again, everything in the Endsinger fight is by nature at least partially dynamis-powered). Where the majority lands depends entirely on whether you think the Encyclopedia Eorzea is mostly accurate. And personally, I think it is, for one simple reason: the most confirmably non-dynamis LBs outside of the Encyclopedia descriptions come from Endwalker. It wouldn't make sense for them to do a blanket, wide-ranging retcon in the exact same content load that they introduced clear exceptions to this supposed 'new fact'.

[RyuDragnier]

If you want to argue 'the Encyclopedia Eorzea might be wrong', that's certainly an angle, but we need to admit alternative sources of information in.

I hate to bring up old threads better left dead (due to the arguments, this one in context being about Venat), but you said in this quote long ago:

Again: the use of passages from the Encyclopedia Eorzea confirms in-universe sources. Specifically in-universe, present-day, Eorzean sources (although some of these may be Sharlayan at this stage).

By that very standard, doesn't that make the EE fallible simply BECAUSE Dynamis isn't well known yet?

[Cleretic]

I hate to bring up old threads better left dead (due to the arguments, this one in context being about Venat), but you said in this quote long ago:



By that very standard, doesn't that make the EE fallible simply BECAUSE Dynamis isn't well known yet?

Yes, I wasn't saying that the Encyclopedia Eorzea was infallible.

What I was saying is that we have no actual evidence that says we should throw away this information and just go 'BUT DYNAMIS', especially because Endwalker itself provided explicitly clear examples of non-dynamis LBs that actually support those descriptions. There's no counterevidence that suggests that these LB descriptions aren't accurate, so we have no reason to believe they aren't.


Again: There's descriptions of abilities in the Encyclopedia that genuinely do sound like they might be dynamis-related, and are worthy of discussion on that front; I'd point out Manawall and Unleash. We should talk about them, instead of just going 'the NIN LB3 is dynamis because I think that's cool and don't care that it's got a direct explanation'.

[TowaIsBestGirl]

I wonder just how much it'll end up featuring in the future MSQ aside from Ultimate bosses. Will the Warrior of Light ever reclaim the power of the Super Saiyan God they tapped into during the Zenos fight? Find out next time on the next thrilling episode of Final Fantasy XIV!

Another matter, I saw some people mentioning the Encylopaedias Eorzea and perhaps the upcoming third Volume might clear up this debate once and for all?

[Alleluia]

I wonder just how much it'll end up featuring in the future MSQ aside from Ultimate bosses. Will the Warrior of Light ever reclaim the power of the Super Saiyan God they tapped into during the Zenos fight? Find out next time on the next thrilling episode of Final Fantasy XIV!

Another matter, I saw some people mentioning the Encylopaedias Eorzea and perhaps the upcoming third Volume might clear up this debate once and for all?

I am now imagining Endsinger Ultimate. I've never done an ultimate, but I'd actually watch that. It'd be epic. Bet there'd even be a Zenos fight thrown in at some point. Special ATE of punching Zenos in the face, probably. lol

[Cleretic]

I am now imagining Endsinger Ultimate. I've never done an ultimate, but I'd actually watch that. It'd be epic. Bet there'd even be a Zenos fight thrown in at some point. Special ATE of punching Zenos in the face, probably. lol

Endsinger itself would not be enough for an Ultimate, they're basically multiple fights mashed together. I think it's usually like, five.

I could debatably see a 'Final Days' Ultimate focused around a retelling of Amaurot's end in the Minstrel's elaborate, fanfic-y way. Although if I were writing it I'd probably base it more around the Ancients; so no jacked-up Zenos, but yes to a jacked-up Hermes.