Dragonsong ultimate, is machinist useless?

[Henji]

Currently, only 4 out of 94 groups has cleared dragonsong ultimate with a machinist. How can people say the job is in a good state when it's not a viable pick in a certain kind of content?

[Rongway]

4 out of 94 groups has cleared dragonsong ultimate with a machinist

[MCH's] not a viable pick in [Dragonsong ULtimate]

These two statements are incompatible. If it were not viable, 0 groups would have cleared with a MCH.

[CKNovel]

"Useless" and "Unviable" is an hyperbole of the current situation.

DSR strikes exactly where it hurts the MCH. Problem is that anything that isn't single target and requires minimum utility is the MCH weakness while it doesn't shine in the former.

MCH suffers from 4 main problems:
-It is gauge based, unlike TEA it's very rare to have a phase where the DPS check is so low you can sit on your resources for a big reopener.
-A lot of damages source are tied to the gauges, Hypercharge and Automaton Queen. Downtime is actually the MCH worst ennemy while the melees won't have troubles.
-In the ranged equation MCH doesn't have any utility as DNC and BRD also have their tactician equivalent.
-MCH AoE game is terrible. Bio Blaster is barely a gain, ricochet needs the targets to be stacked (spoiler, they're never stacked) and Chain saw suffers from 65% fall off.

Compare that to DNC:
-Amazing in heavy downtime content as it is a burst job.
-Not being gauge based.
-Massive utility as Cure Waltz is very good and Improved finish is ridiculously great. Also has access to dashes.
-Great AoE game, has many fall off but also has many natural AoEs.

Compare that to BRD:
-Suffers from downtime due to needing a target to play its songs (Would be amazing otherwise)
-A bit of damage coming from gauges.
-Great utility, Warden's pean is a bit useless and should have an extra effect as it's not pressed at all in any 6.0 content (I think?), but Nature's Minne is amazing, especially with a scholar.
-Great AoE game, can multi dot and easily aim at 2 targets.

MCH is simply not valuable and brings nothing to the team except a slightly better DPS when there is no downtime. This isn't enough to compete with the other ranged DPS. RDM is gauge based and has lower damage but brings Magick Barrier.
It's a problem since 5.0, MCH has been amputated from too many things. Dismantle should've stayed.

You can definitely clear as a MCH but your team will hate your for picking MCH.
At that point, I'm honestly just waiting until Yoshida says on the liveletter "Okay sorry we goofed MCH and we've been ignoring the problems for too long."

[SilverSkyway]

On top of the 5% rule. Bard and dnc bring buffs, Mch doesn't. Most teams pushing will have tanks/heals (duh) but 2melee/1caster/1range. <5%.
As said by CKN, Mch despite a selfless dps doesn't bring do enough, even in damage area.

[Henji]

These two statements are incompatible. If it were not viable, 0 groups would have cleared with a MCH.

Let's face it, it's only viable in groups that don't struggle with DPS. It was almost the exact same thing for week 1 savage, but for DRS it's even worse, since we'll never leave the "week 1 state" until dungeon gear and better consumables drop.

[Lilyth]

MCH needs buffs for sure, but its not unviable on DSR. Been progging Death into Nighogg/Hraes as a MCH and the group hasn't had any dps issues so far.

[Serenaya]

No, it isn't useless. In fact, the short phases benefit it quite well. We have the ability to pool and spend at will, ensuring good burst pretty much on demand. Got a weakness? No problem, just spend gauge otherwise being built for next phase to compensate a little given that most phases DPS checks are pretty lenient once you're comfortable with the mechanics. Full disclosure, my group is on P6 enrage (clear soon hopefully but we don't have masses of free time the last couple weeks) and we've had no issues at all. Of course the P7 check is the big one, but I don't predict any major problems once I know how much gauge I can optimally go into the last phase with. People are sleeping on MCH on this fight tbh.

It's clear by now that SEs logic is that they want it to be very burst-oriented and that coupled with the design of this ultimate means that MCH is at least able to excel in that department, reinforced by the WF buff following the 6.11 patch. Still doesn't justify the myriad of issues the job still has, and my view on the job needing a major intervention hasn't really changed but calling it unviable is an overreaction.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

If you say Gauge are an issue, then the Reaper got the exact same issue. But I've not seen any RPR saying that was an issue on the DSR so far.

[CKNovel]

If you say Gauge are an issue, then the Reaper got the exact same issue. But I've not seen any RPR saying that was an issue on the DSR so far.

And you are correct, RPR is quite low compared to other melees.
But on the opposite of the MCH, RPR benefits much more from downtime (Soul Slice 30s cooldown on 2 charges, that would be like if Air Anchor had 2 charges) and benefits from Arcane circle.
It allows the RPR to have a better control over its gauges and cooldowns, allowing massive reopeners. In comparison, MCH only has Reassemble on charges and it only garantee a crit/dh.

RPR is actually valuable during full uptime phases.

On top of that, Arcane Crest remains valuable especially during healing check phases.
Despite being on the lower end of the melee DPS, RPR is able to bring valuable tools on the table.
The problem is that MCH doesn't even have RPR mobility or Arcane crest.

TL;DR:
It's an issue but not a big one since RPR brings something else than its DPS to the table.
It's a big issue for MCH as it only brings DPS and is by far the lowest of all 3.

[Chopstix]

my group had a reaper initially, they swapped to dragoon after a few days, my god the difference was night and day

u have 3 phys ranged jobs, pick one that is best suited for the task if u have that kind of flexibility, or at the very least dont play the absolute worst job that simply does not synergise well with a lot of the phases

can u clear with a rp/mch, sure u can... should u though? i bet the precious few who did were just fishing for an easy 100 cause nobody plays those jobs in there for a good reason