Bard's future

[Dyvid]

Share yours.

My thought is the Current Battle Director hates DoTs for some odd reason.

[ExcogEnjoyer]

Hey man, I know you don't like Bard, but have you tried playing a different job? All their songs deal direct damage already. The problem with making a pure bard is that UNIQUE utility does not exist in the game anymore and would leave the job feeling woefully lacking. Surely you understand this very basic concept, right? Making it fart music wouldn't solve anything, and would really only make it worse.
MCH and all physical ranged classed WILL NOT EVER deal enough damage to put them on the same level as melee classes, this is a deliberate design decision by square enix to prevent people from locking melee's out of party finder groups.
And what happens to the bow weapon type? You know, the thing that Bard has been using for a decade now? Would that just get deleted entirely? This is what I mean when I say people who wish to separate Bard and Archer are thoughtless.

[aveyond-dreams]

words.

Thank you for misinterpreting what it is I'm asking for. You think I'm asking for a Bard that does nothing but buff and debuff while I want one that functions as a full class with an accurate job fantasy. Songs that do everything. Bard can keep it's bow for all I care as an ornament or for 1 or 2 arrow skills that they should have long stopped receiving ages ago. If you want the ranger fantasy, I hope they add ranger for you along with crossbows etc. You've done nothing to sway me away from my position.

At least the people who argued in favor of poison-mage Summoner had more depth to their arguments. Bard is the perfect candidate for being this game's dot class. So why are their dots being thrown out the window in favor of more meaningless magic arrow skills? Why not just have given them their Bane equivalent and lay the long-standing issue to rest already? Why does every song besides Radiant Finale feel so unimpactful, yet Dancer's buffs feel so much better? These decisions make very little sense.

[BoobooDaBear]

I have been play bard a lot recently, trying to get a ranged dps to join groups looking for only a ranged. I just have two things to say about it.

First, bloodletter and rain of death oGCDs, I think should be the same cooldown. This would take an extra button off bard and make rain of death (RoD) an upgrade to bloodletter and turn it into an aoe. 100 potency on RoD and 110 on Bloodletter returns a tiny damage difference, sometimes a RoD deals more than bloodletter on a single target (im lvl 60 now so I know the gap will get bigger at 90 but still), that or make bloodletters potency higher. Right now the damage is so close you almost don't need to pick which to use, because either will deal nearly the same damage.

Second, DoTs, for being the "DoT job" its very difficult to get your DoTs on more than 2 targets, so I think Iron Jaw ability should also spread your dots, putting DoTs on groups takes a lot of GCDs, even if you only use one DoT per target, and with 3+ targets using quick notch is better than getting DoTs out, as the DoT job this seems a little backwards.

[ExcogEnjoyer]

Yea and my point is that changing's its vfx to fart musical notes that don't functionally do anything that Bard already does is not going to solve anything other than make it's already shallow gameplay even more apparent.
I was one of the biggest critics of Square's decision to separate its DoTs from it's songs, and I ALSO have been a critic of the fact that bard's song's have felt lacking since 5.0.
These decisions make very little sense to you because you're likely a WoWfugee exodus and don't understand what Bard used to be like in previous expansions, and cannot see the wider pattern of square enix's design philosophies.
I don't care if I've swayed you from your position because quite frankly your position is stupid and I don't care to entertain it further.
In the meantime, have you tried playing a different class instead of suggesting things that would ruin bard?

[aveyond-dreams]

I've played this game since it launched. I have tried Bard in every expansion. I simply like classes that let me deal damage from a distance. Bard for me was most fun in ARR and Stormblood - in ARR because I liked being able to regen TP and Mana and SB because of Foe's Requiem. For future reference I recommend against defaulting to accusing people of being WoW refugees when you disagree with them.

What I can see is that SE needs to get it together when it comes to jobs in a state of crisis like Bard is in right now where there's no clear direction that it's going in. Summoner's rework is unfinished but at the least they have something to aim and push towards, the same can't be said for Bard though.

Adding dots and songs that do different things is hardly a way to ruin Bard. Continuing to add throwaway magic archery skills however only worsens the issue of the class having no focus. It's clear that neither the Ranger players nor the Bard players can be pleased at the same time so long as SE decides to continue propping up this failed Robin Hood/Leliana hybrid. Divorce is the best solution:

Bard - uses bow, high focus on songs and buffs and provides unique buffs like Battle Sprints and Regens to set it apart from Dancer. Huge emphasis on maintaining their Song stance as well as maintaining Song dots on the target/targets that can be spread by a Bane equivalent. Some few arrow skills that work as filler at lower levels. Bonus: give them a Sage Eukrasia button to let them switch their instrument from Harp to Flute in order to switch between single-target and aoe song variants.

Ranger - uses crossbow, high focus on poisoned arrows for dots or barrage skills. Maybe even give them the new WoW system that lets charged attacks hit harder or cause different effects. Given how Blue Mage takes up a caster slot, it isn't outside the realm of possibility for them to add this rDPS job in 7.0.

[ExcogEnjoyer]

Changing how Bard plays now for the sake of a class that would be gimped beyond measure is ruining bard, yes.
Also for the record, Bard does have a focus, it uses its Archery to deal damage and uses its musical magic to augment its attacks and provide buffs to its allies. While its buffing end is rather shallow (because a lot of it was removed), its not a class without focus, like Reaper or Sage. You simply don't like the focus that it does have and want it to be something else.

[aveyond-dreams]

Bard's buffs can hardly be felt outside Radiant Finale in level 90 content. For 89 levels it's nothing more than magic archer. This isn't working. I'm sorry that you are apparently attached to this combination but that won't matter more than the attachment that Warlocks had to old Summoner when it received its rework. Let Bard focus on music. It's a Bard.

What I've suggested does more to suit its fantasy and accounts for the desires of those who prefer to be archers/rangers. Certainly does a lot more for the class than tacking on yet another arrow skill. I fail to see how Bard as a class with its own Eukrasia button, able to still rotate and proc more thematically relevant abilities with song stances, being rewarded for maintaining its dots, all while providing damage buffs/utility is ruining the class.

Carrying on the current road is leading to nowhere. Perhaps when the 7.0 job trailer releases and Bard only gets Apex Arrow 2 you will recall my suggestions.

[ExcogEnjoyer]

I'm sorry that you're more enamored with the symbol on the soul crystal than creating a class that could actually function in 2022 FFXIV. Archer is a part of Bard and its here to stay. What you're suggesting simply creates more issues, especially in the realm of balance. What happens to Nu-Bard when square decides it has too much utility and is crowding out other classes? Bard works fine, it simply needs more of what it used to have, namely Foe Requiem and Refresh.

What you're suggesting does NOT suit bard's fantasy, it ignores and devalues the class it's built on, for the sake of people who don't even like the class to begin with. This would piss off people who like how the job plays now, and people who LIKE playing with a bow. All of its abilities and skills are thematically relevant, you simply do not like it. Bard does not have to play like FFXI's Bard for it to fulfill its role as a battle singer. It just needs more of what it used to have.

And buddy, we already have Apex Arrow 2. Its called Blast Arrow.

[aveyond-dreams]

continued words

I have already offered you the solutions you demanded. It doesn't take much to fix them. Bard+Archer is unhappy marriage and I look forward to the day that SE finally sees sense and grants them their long awaited divorce from each other, so that better classes tailored to the tastes of both groups can take their place.