Thread: REVERT SAM TO 6.08

Originally Posted by Yandere-chan

People prefer different levels of complexity in their rotation. It's literally impossible for them to please everyone equally at the same time in regards to this. There is not an objectively better route. While some people have expressed their grievances with this iteration of the Samurai kit, you have to keep in mind, those who like the changes are not going to make threads about it. You can't just base how well a change is being received due to complaints on forums with this being so.

You are literally explaining the exact problem. They cut off the top part of the Samurai's skill expression and the much loved identity skills. The only thing this change did was make it so everyone plays at the skill floor and make the job play like level 50. The only accomplishment this change did was remove the job from most groups. You are ignoring that there is worldwide unanimous feedback stating these changes are horrendous. There are over 2500 posts combined wordwide explaining this, you can count almost half from JP alone. I'm not going to even start going into heavy details, if you are going to join the conversation I'd like to direct you to CelestiCer's compiled threads and you'll see the many well thought out arguments against every single reasoning SE has given. Oh and, many casual players are also against this change, it's not just people who play at a higher skill level. The job's feel and fun factor have been stripped for a large majority. This isn't exclusive to the Official Forums and there are also videos and discussions elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Before the changes, there were a lot of posts about it in the General forum. After the changes, I've hardly seen any in the General forum except references in replies and this is the first post about it I've seen in a long while. If everyone is still upset about it, I suggest making the amount of posts we saw before it changed.

All those posts are in the DPS forums. You don't need to search very far for them.

And I'm going to add that yes, Samurai has other problems but removing Kaiten was not a solution and neither was singling out their damage profile while leaving every other job untouched. They created this problem themselves when they added Meikyo and Tsubame's second charges and forcing everything into 2 minute windows. Then the developers are concerned about damage variance. Ogi Namikiri, Kenki homogenization in 6.0, all of this has been discussed to death while we've been waiting for that promised reply from YoshiP to explain their reasoning on the changes.

Originally Posted by Roxus

Ah yes, yet another person with the hyperbole argument. The fact that there are this many people posting, and many for the first time, is a clear indicator that there is something not quite right with the changes. If you argue against this you are just arguing in bad faith. The opinions are also not varied, it's all the same. We were asked specifically to write the feedback, and are doing so. There is a direct comparison to activity before the changes and after the changes regarding Samurai feedback and there is an absurdly large increase after 6.1. The actual post detailing and posting it in a format with before and after are in my feedback thread, one of the more recent pages.

Damage isn't everything. If you've even read even one of the threads detailing arguments against the changes, you'd know this. Groups will kick Samurais because most people don't want to play with a handicap unless it literally doesn't matter, and if it didn't matter these changes were useless in the first place. Does that mean every group will do that? No, but there is an incentive. I am not going to parrot what has already been written, if you actually care, go read the feedback. I see you keep repeating the same words thinking it will somehow push your own argument, but you're literally speaking on a subject without being informed.

Yes, if you look at a certain third party website, you will see the play rate has drastically decreased from one of the most played to one of the least. You'd also know this if you read any of the feedback.

I won't respond to anything else you have to say because it isn't worth my time. If you decide to read any of the well constructed posts, please by all means I am open to having the discussion at that point.

It's hardly an argument. It's very clearly hyperbole. You are trying to stipulate what millions of people think based off what seems to be a micro minority of organized complainers with an agenda to try to push for a change that is in line with their own biases. You are the one in bad faith if you are suggesting it's in bad faith to be skeptical of extremely over the top claims by such a small group of players advocating for their own interests at the expense of those who may actually prefer the changes. You further make yourself look to be arguing in bad faith by suggesting people would kick a samurai from their group because their class was made easier to play, lol. No one but your own ingroup is going to buy into that even a little. It's beyond absurd to anyone not in that bubble and only further hurts your credibility for your already over the top claims that you lack actual evidence for, which the burden of evidence is on you since you are the ones making these extreme claims that just so happen serve your own interests. To say it's sketchy would be an understatement. Arguments that appeal to your own biases may seem good to you, but they are poor to those who don't share them with you and your in-group.

The number of players isn't what matters, nor is what was said. The relative number of players is what matters. E.g. If 80,000 of a million active players were playing samurai on avg. over a month long period prior to the changes, that would be a relative percent of 8. If that would change to say 70,000 players out of 800,000 avg. players for the avg. for a month post the changes, that would be a relative percent of 8.75. Even though the total number of samurai players would go down in this example, the relative percent would be going up. This is more important to consider since if less or more people play in general at a later window of date, that should be accounted for. Granted, there should be a margin of error to account for other factors that may lead to an increase or decrease as well. If the relative % ends up within 20% or so of one another, it would be fair to say that people balanced out between those who liked or disliked the changes. If there was a difference of say, 40% or greater, then depending on the direction, it would show that people were pushed away from the changes or attracted to them respectively. Granted, this wouldn't be conclusive, but it would be better evidence to indicate overall player feelings than a very small number of posters on the forums which for this game is especially known for being rather disjointed from what general players who don't visit the forums feel.

It is also worth stating that influencers with their own bias preferences often have them parroted by their followers, which could easily lead to poor representation of what players overall think. E.g. A creator like misshapen chair's views hardly represent the whole of FFXIV. Far from it. Yet, if their followers were to advocate for their views on the forums, it would further obscure the objective truth of how players feel overall, which is almost always going to be rather varied for subjects like class design. The reality is, many people do prefer simplifications to rotation, even on high levels of gameplay. Just because people aren't making threads celebrating such changes, doesn't mean they don't exist, as historically, as stated before, people don't tend to make threads celebrating changes of that nature on the forums. People typically only come to the forums to complain about what they don't like. In turn, it's completely bias to just presume one's distaste for the changes is true for the majority, especially when the ones making that claim have that bias themselves.

It's essentially a relatively small number of people with similar biases patting each other on the back in a forum thread and trying to play it off as it representing the worldwide community as a whole. It's a completely disingenuous over the top claim which is self serving to that in-group and thus is hyperbole.

Originally Posted by Yandere-chan

It's important to recognize that just because you don't have threads of people praising the changes, saying how they are glad the rotation was simplified, doesn't mean there aren't large numbers of people who feel that way who are simply playing the game and enjoying them. Historically, players do not make threads about liking such things. It's usually only when a player has a problem with something that they go out of their way to talk about it. This is why it's important to take complaint topics on the forums with a few grains of salt, as it isn't representative of the player base as a whole.

So they asked for feedback, and we're not allowed to voice it or if we do... it's not valid?
=====================================






Okey do me a favor and scroll down
are all of these invalid?
you tell me...










04-01-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-remove-Kaiten

Originally Posted by Toromak

I really like the feel of using this ability, even if there isn't much of a decision to be made about when to use it. There are other targets for ability bloat, please just find some other way.

04-01-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...24-6.1-Samurai

Originally Posted by Luin

It's not just simplification at this point, we're losing job identity. Why even bother having separate jobs?
By 7.0 the only job with any identity remaining is going to be Black Mage, we're already seeing it now. We know at least 1 dev plays Black Mage. Can't say the same for most other jobs. Please tell us this is an April Fool's joke.

04-02-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ISSATSU-KAITEN

Originally Posted by Chopstix

Please for the love of all that is holy. Who thought of this? Kaiten is a really fun, rewarding oGCD to use. It is the only separator from mindless gauge dump on Hissatsu: Shinten.

04-02-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-remove-Kaiten

Originally Posted by ninjasoldier014

I don't normally make posts of the forum but because this is really personal I can't help but get involved somehow. I'm a long time fan of samurai, if it weren't for my interest in sage and a few other jobs it would certainly be my main job. However, if kaiten gets removed I don't think I will ever return to the job. It won't be satisfying anymore.

04-02-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oval-of-Kaiten.

Originally Posted by NamiOh

Hello, I set up my account here simply because I wanted to add my voice expressing dissatisfaction with the upcoming removal of Kaiten.

04-03-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lete-Kenki-lol

Originally Posted by Edweena

With Kaiten's removal, kenki offers nothing but a resource you dump on Shinten (there is the AOE and Hissatu abilities but they don't change anything).

04-03-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Kaiten-removal

Originally Posted by ChichiBlack

Kaiten was one of the skills that made me fall in love with SAM as soon as I tried it, alongside Midare Setsugekka that made me like it from level 50. / Just... please, don't remove this.

04-04-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oat-on-Samurai

Originally Posted by Xenon_S

All in all, I am strictly examining whether or not Kaiten contributes to action bloat and thus needs to be removed, and my conclusion is that it does not, nor will its removal reasonably alleviate the non-existant notion of action bloat on Samurai.

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...43-Keep-Kaiten

Originally Posted by cjbeagle

I'm a samurai main - I've played all the jobs, and samurai is my favorite - by far - and not for the aesthetic, but for the gameplay. I've never even visited the forums previously, but this change is so egregious that I felt compelled to speak out..

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...issatsu-KAITEN

Originally Posted by Esquel

There are already a plethora of posts like mine, but I figured, if I don't voice my opinion in any way, I don't have a right to complain afterwards.
As the title already says, I don't think that removing Hissatsu: Kaiten is a good idea - for many reasons.

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-remove-Kaiten

Originally Posted by carkie

Kaiten is a big part of what makes the kenki interesting. Outside of burst, (which has its kenki supplied by Ikishoten), we now only have one move that uses kenki, so there is almost no strategy. Also, the kaiten animation is very satisfying to use before big hits. Keep the crit changes, but revert the kaiten removal.

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Kaiten-debate

Originally Posted by LadyEllen

I made an account specifically to throw in my support for keeping Kaiten on SAM. / Simplifying jobs does NOT make them more interesting, it makes them boring. Please keep Kaiten in the game.

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Samurai-Change

Originally Posted by LordWeasel

So uh... I JUST mastered Samurai and just learned when to apply Hissatsu Kaiten. The fact it's getting removed in 6.1 just 'coz of button bloats? This cat girl is unhappy. Devs... what are you guys doing? D: Hissatsu Kaiten is NOT that hard to apply mid battle! Please don't remove it. It's satisfying to use. .

04-06-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...issatsu-Kaiten

Originally Posted by AsuraAeon

I literally made a Forum account for the first time in all my 6 years of playing just to add to the many pleading requests for this. Please.
Kaiten is such a fun and core part of SAM gameplay, and it has a lovely wind-up animation that syncs perfectly with Iaijutsu. Please don't ruin SAM.

04-07-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/.....with-Love%29

Originally Posted by Zaredth

In short, I loved how impactful and how Kaiten added complexity to my abilities. To augment what I already have with the fancy blade work with that *whirr whirr whirr* just felt so good. Then.......the 6.1 Live letter happen. I am gonna be real....I hate shinten.

04-07-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Samurai-Alone

Originally Posted by strangethings

...once we remove Kaiten, kenki turns purely into a all you can Shinten buffet.
Tl;dr Kaiten is the only complexity current SAM has, and will have poor synergy with jobs that give crit rate up if it has guaranteed crits.

04-08-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...issatsu-Kaiten

Originally Posted by Apopopo

"Oh but devs like megathreads more." You know what's cooler then a megathread? Not ruining jobs. Revert it. If the devs follow through on removing Kaiten, the only thing it proves to us, is that the player experience doesn't matter, and that they not only don't care about player feedback, but that their job design team is incredibly out of touch.

04-08-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...emoving-Kaiten

Originally Posted by SiriusBreeze

To whom it may concern, please, I implore you, please, do not remove Kaiten. There are so many other ways to fix this problem over removing Kaiten. Please, I now beg of you, don't remove Kaiten.

04-10-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...issatsu-Kaiten

Originally Posted by Kazamaiya

I just want to show my support to the Samurai players out there and share my voice as i do not wish to see Hissatsu: Kaiten be removed for a reason that feels either quite unnessecary or like it is simply removed from a button bloat problem that was caused by the new skills added in the Endwalker Expansion.

04-10-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...iten-Who-Asked

Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

Literally who? Who asked for this in either the NA or JP communities? Name a single person, a single basis for justifying the removal of such an iconic ability.

04-11-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rai-AoE-Damage

Originally Posted by waterboytkd

We'll see tomorrow once everything goes live, but it appears the devs forgot to give Tenka Goken and Kaeshi: Goken the auto-crits they should get? Also, not sure why they made the effort to nerf the potency on Kaeshi: Goken, but not give it the auto-crit. I mean, that's why Midare, Ogi, and their Kaeshi got potency nerfs. But Kaeshi: Goken got nerfed without a corresponding buff. This, to me, is clearly an oversight.

======= posted =====================

After 6.1, Kaiten removed. Backlash


04-11-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ghts-on-Kaiten.

Originally Posted by Twig

The thing about Kaiten is not just that it's a core skill that boosts other skills, but rather what it provided in terms of class complexity /
TL;DR Kaiten is not bloat and makes a SAM player learn meter management skills.

04-11-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ase-for-Kaiten

Originally Posted by KevinM1

understand why the devs removed Kaiten... it's not really different than the old Heavensward DRK Dark Arts spam. But as that job never fully recovered from DA's removal in terms of feel and flow and soul (IMO), so too will Samurai suffer from losing Kaiten. Not necessarily because of job performance number-wise (although, there's a case for that, too), but rather because of it's feel and flow and soul.

04-11-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rent-iteration

Originally Posted by Roxus

TLDR: Consistency good. Method bad. [If you MUST remove Kaiten, the skill animation should replace Hagakure. Redistribute the potency to finishers.] I take this back. Not even that would change how awful it feels to play right now. Bring Kaiten back. Revert to 6.08 Samurai. Still not asking for a buff.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ggestions-only

Originally Posted by Winefaye

Hey everyone. Like many others, I'm disapointed with the changes that 6.1 brings to our beloved SAM. 1 - Bring Kaiten back. / 2 - Bring old potencys back.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...sion-feels-bad.

Originally Posted by Amh_Wilzuun

I am sadly switching to Monk, maybe reaper this patch. Hopefully these changes are reverted ASAP. I am POSITIVE you will see a considerable reduction of sam players compared to the great 6.0 iteration of the job.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...murai-feedback

Originally Posted by CelestiCer

But what would I and probably many others want over all of this?
Reverting back to how our Samurai was Pre-6.1

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...459090-SAM-6.1

Originally Posted by BurntMarshmallow

I'm quite disappointed by the changes that SE has made to SAM.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-after-playing

Originally Posted by Edweena

Kaiten's removal has made tracking Kenki unnecessary,...

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ack-to-Pre-6.1

Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Revert SAM back to Pre-6.1

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...se-revert-asap

Originally Posted by ildranor

title, it feels like crap to play now, not having kaiten feels empty while playing, low numbers on big moves feels shit. i hate it and wont be playing it unless they change it back.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-Samurai-Nerf

Originally Posted by M_Red

I got to say, the new changes to Samurai honestly feels very horrific comparing to how it was before.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-6.1-Iteration

Originally Posted by UnseveredRevna

I'll probably tough it out and stay on SAM for one more week to finish up my raid team's farming of P4S. But my weapon coffers will not be going to SAM, but rather Reaper, the only job that has any trace of the things I liked about Samurai (active meter management, thrilling presentation, and clearly defined filler and burst phases), and I don't see myself staying on this class for the entirety of 6.1 if it is going to stay in this state. SAM was a lot of "firsts" for me in FFXIV - my first job to beat Extreme trials, Savages and Ultimates with, my first job I felt like I was legitimately good at, the first job I did an EX trial for a glam weapon for, and it is the job I associate with my WoL in their MSQ role. It greatly saddens me that all of the great content 6.1 has added will not be on that list.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ly-implemented

Originally Posted by Reesetti

I would strongly encourage the dev team to consider returning Kaiten and returning the damage emphasis to the finishers and burst of Samurai. It will lose that consistency yes, but I would rather keep the inconsistent but fun identity than lose it. The auto crits can stay or go, I may warm up to them yet. But Kaiten's removal is a detriment and wound to Samurai's otherwise solid history.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-been-delayed

Originally Posted by SpartanPawnch

TL;DR: 6.1 changes were communicated poorly. Samurai changes should have been delayed until 6.15 at the earliest or preferably 6.2 when all the large changes are planned.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...458990-6.1-SAM

Originally Posted by butchersblock

The new Samurai gameplay just feels awful, please consider fully reverting the changes and instead slightly lowering Midare's total damage contribution to SAM's dps.

4-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...revert-asap%29

Originally Posted by cjbeagle

I was against these changes from the start, but after actually trying them out in-game, it actually feels way worse than I ever imagined.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amurai-Changes

Originally Posted by Biu

Kaiten removal: By totally removing it you took off a job's identity and diversity in his gauge usage, which will make the job so worse and boring to play.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Wasn-t-Broken

Originally Posted by AltanaTheKaitenless

Samurai lost it's soul, the flare, the big numbers, that's what drew people (and me) to the job. / Literally no one asked for this, we all liked pressing kaiten and then iaijutsu. It made us feel powerful and it was satisfying. Now I constantly feel like I'm playing a level 50 class sync. Not to mention the severe potency nerf of midare, ogi, and kaeshi, it almost feels like a job assassination by someone on the dev team.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...that-6.1-patch

Originally Posted by neymo

This job is a very important part of what made me love FF14. I never post anything on forums but here I see it as a duty to support all the SAM players that we are here. / Why ? Samurai was good how it was, the gameplay felt satisfying enough and the damages where good as well I dont really get why it needed to be flaten like that.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...game-for-me%21

Originally Posted by Kabouter

(EDIT)Sorry for editing my previous post, but I have had enough time to test out the new SAM and it's honestly not all bad. (despite my previous rant about how much I hated the new version)

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...is-now-optimal.

Originally Posted by Ransu

The absolute irony here being they removed kaiten for "action bloat" without addressing the kenki bloat we were going to have. So now we're just replacing it with more shinten spam and the left over kenki from the opener now makes weaving gyoten into the opener optimal.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...s-are-terrible

Originally Posted by Aevalyn

Having no Kaiten feels weird, and I have to press Shinten to spend Kenki too often. Also, Tenka Goken was just fine as a cone.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...uins-new-patch

Originally Posted by WorldPeacElbow

How am I suppose to enjoy the patch when my favorite job is gutted like this? This is ridiculous. I love kaiten. Bring it back asap.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...murai-feedback

Originally Posted by Tencint

Not having kaiten anymore feels wrong I might be able to get used to it but as of now it feels weird. What I like about the update is potency was added to the core combo. Changes aside from Kaiten I would like to see would be reducing Hissatsu: senei's recast for kenki management and add some more potency to Kaeshi: Setsugekka and Kaeshi: Namikiri

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...k-Remove-Kenki

Originally Posted by DreadfullyAwful

SE is heading this way already in job development. Whilst you're at it, remove all combos but Hazake, Jinpu, Gekko, that all add to the Sen gauge. You must figure most of the players are smooth brain sub-humans incapable of complex thought, so this is the progressive next step. Also, for patch 7.0, just delete all dps but BLM.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...s-are-not-good

Originally Posted by Valeryka

Yes, it's another post about disliking 6.1 Sam changes. I've literally never posted on these forums before but the changes made to the class I main has prompted me to change that.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...eel-of-Samurai

Originally Posted by RushBee

What I'm most upset about is how the "game feel" of Samurai feels terrible post-Kaiten removal and how it ruins the job fantasy of Samurai.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...els-like-trash

Originally Posted by Shilukk

I've never felt compelled to make a forum post. I set up my account specifically for this. Kaiten was a core part of SAM, but I decided I'd give it a shot. I ran the new dungeon and an experts. It feels like trash. It isn't satisfying.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...patch%286.1%29

Originally Posted by Melodream

...for the first time since it release I'm quitting SAM and going back to MNK. SE please listen to the players, you made a mistake and change something that wasn't broken, and now you need to revert the changes.

04-12-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-like-crap-now.

Originally Posted by Rekun

Removing an ability core to the identity of Samurai would feel like crap though. What the heck were they thinking? It's incompetence on the same level as removing Hagakure back in Shadowbringers.
Dunno how they manage to miss so hard with a job as simple as Samurai.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Samurai-Thread

Originally Posted by Cara_Dwyn

Hey all, I don't post on the forums (pls be nice), but I've been reading and I wanted to add to the mass of voices talking about the Samurai changes, since I, as with many SAM players, don't like it very much and I want squenix to know how players like me feel. Tl;Dr below.

4-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ssatsu-Seppuku

Originally Posted by cjbeagle

6.1 took what was previously my favorite job by far and made it completely unenjoyable.

4-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...rt-SAM-changes.

Originally Posted by ildranor

Please revert SAM to 6.0 SE. Thank you.

4-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...am-changes-lol

Originally Posted by Alex1337

HOWEVER, 12th of April effectively marked the death of the job’s feel, in my opinion. / What I’m more troubled by is it seems this is part of some larger rework which is fine but why do we get some half assed 25% done reworks in the retail version.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...urai-Complaint

Originally Posted by sloppyeric

i'm not gonna make a huge paragraph of everything that is wrong with the samurai changes i just wanted to make a fourm complaint the first time ever. but i can say for certain my complaints seems to be the general public complaint the job feels bad. the kenki gauge is so pointless. might as well call it Shinten gauge. the damage is whatever but it does feel worse then it was. i think they forgot what made samurai a samurai. ill be honest i did not think getting rid of one ability would make me resent it so much. even my good friend may put the katana down. thats not good.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...on-the-changes.

Originally Posted by AnJellie

Overall, as someone who likes to give things a try before I give my opinion, I find that the removal of Kaiten was a big mistake. Having guaranteed crits in the absence of Kaiten isn't worh it overall. SAM just doesn't feel the same. If they wanted to make the job less busy, taking away Kaiten wasn't it. Please bring it back.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...kaiten-removal

Originally Posted by ChichiBlack

Yup, title says it all. I created this account after the announcement about the Kaiten removal. Said I was against it, we were told to wait and try it out, which I did. And then to provide feedback, which I will.
Well first of all, I think it's just terrible. Now before anyone says I haven't tried it enough. I ran savage with it, the new extreme, the alliance raid, a few dungeons, hit on a dummy for 30 minutes. I DID try it.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...am-impressions

Originally Posted by Soren_Kazaren

I would like to start by stating that I do agree with the intent behind the changes made to Samurai in 6.1 however... I feel the way their intentions were implemented has turned out to be less than ideal. Let's breakdown the reasons why. First the Kaiten removal...

=======================================

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...er-SAM-post%29

Originally Posted by Yenrz

I'm seeing a lot of casuals who are supportive of the Kaiten removal making the same vapid statements about how Kenki didn't mean anything, as it was required to be pressed before every iajutsu anyways. And they reduce the arguments most are making as stuff that only concerns hardcore players (eg. kenki gauge dumb-ification). In this, they're completely missing the point to why Kaiten is so important, to BOTH casuals AND hardcore players.
/ It's not bloat, it's the core of the job.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ng-Back-Kaiten

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

I played through the 6.1 MSQ Dungeon as Samurai and it felt weird and wrong, the removal of Kaiten was a misguided decision because it cuts too deep into the aspect of Kenki Management and the Understanding of how to utilize Kenki in given Situations, stating "Button Bloat" must be coming from someone who may never played Samurai

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amurai-Changes

Originally Posted by Kairo

after my 8 years of playing this game I have never felt so disrespected for my time and for the effort I've put into mastering something / I really, really do not want to unsub. I have made countless friends, including my wife playing this game as well as going to 3 fan fests, but I can't continue to condone this disregard for your experienced players. You are walking the exact same path that lead the exodus of wow and it's truly painful to witness.

04-13-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...1-SAM-Thoughts

Originally Posted by Interstik

It's like I'm eating dry, unseasoned chicken. Please add the flavor back.

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ter-a-few-days

Originally Posted by Shilukk

It's me again. I'm not just gonna drop this job I love because of Kaiten. My motivation to play it has in fact been shot several times in the chest, but 'life support' is technically still alive.

4-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...al-Perspective.

Originally Posted by FennasDrunin

I'm just really sad that Samurai feels bad to play now. I may just start playing other classes that feel better, but I don't want to. I really hope that my voice means something. Fennas

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...re-Interesting

Originally Posted by HailNo

Kind of just a fun idea to make samurai kenki gauge more interactive, especially since they removed kaiten.

4-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Class-Identity

Originally Posted by Warpup

Release of 6.1, Samurai is Hollow. Kenki meter is "Shinten Meter", with Senei/Guren once every 2 minutes. It's as if there is no seasoning to my meat, or if you asked for a Cheeseburger, and there was no cheese. The flavor is missing. Kaiten was the Class flavor, it was the cheese to the burger.

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-our-Kaiten%21

Originally Posted by ShallyBloodfall

Im a Samurai main and I want Kaiten back. I feel so empty without it. I personally don't care about numbers, but I do care about how a job plays. Being able to manage your Kenki gauge was really engaging and fun!

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...uren-and-Senei

Originally Posted by Edweena

Sorry for the baity title, just want to draw attention to a better solution than the merging of Senei and Guren. In image form!

04-14-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...tead-of-Kaiten

Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

My hot take:
Tsubame-Gaeshi should have been dropped over Kaiten.
They both serve similar functions. One is used to enhance your Iaijutsu beforehand, the other is used to enhance your Iaijutsu afterward.
However, what they actually represent to the job are as different as night and day. Or should I say winter and summer.

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...he-SAM-changes.

Originally Posted by ildranor

Hello Mr Square enix. SAM still feels bad to play, please revert the changes asap. Thank you

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oposed-changes.

Originally Posted by Reese_Clairdale

Hissatsu: KaitenI've never considered this skill to be bloat. Aside from being a satisfying animation, it was also one of the few things that made conscious Kenki Gauge management an aspect of Samurai. Bring it back, please.

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...d-feels-clunky

Originally Posted by GoAgane

I wanted to play Samurai in the new ultimate but it feels strictly worse now. Please bring kaiten back, or give us an alternative kenki spender other than shinten.

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amurai-to-6.08

Originally Posted by Narvack

All imma say this is not the class I loved since it’s released it’s not even A shell of its former self without Kaiten.

04-15-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...03-Sam-changes

Originally Posted by Selfie

I just feel a satisfying button press, kaiten, is gone and I cant do that any longer, and it takes a lot away from the joy I had pressing iaijutsus.

04-16-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...her-Sam-Thread

Originally Posted by Kaseladen

Another day of asking for 6.1 SAM changes to be reverted. Also some love to ninjas/bards that have also been hit during this. A lot of good came from 6.1, don't let these awful changes for a few classes drive some players away from them

04-16-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amurai-changes

Originally Posted by ILikeTea

Removing kaiten was a mind-numbingly stupid decision. The reasoning we got was "ability clutter" which makes absolutely 0 sense.

04-17-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...E-doesn-t-care

Originally Posted by neymo

As a lot of us I wrote a thread few days ago regarding samurai changes (the worst that could've happened). I just wanted to know if SE is just ignoring us hard right now and not respecting anybody or if I missed an official answer ? First they are throwing my samurai down the toilets and now being silent about it while they ruined a big part of the game ?

04-17-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...i-PvE-Feedback

Originally Posted by Xion136

Automatic Critical Hits mean absolutely nothing if the attack itself does not have the potency to back it up.
Midare and Ogi hit like soggy spaghetti. The job doesn't feel fun. Please, revert the changes. Hell, just give our hits way more potency.

04-17-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ssion-Response

Originally Posted by NohimeOda

The removal of Kaiten has many confused and others thankful, it makes the job less involved to play albiet minorly, however this has a drastic impact on job feel.

04-18-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-button-bloat

Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep

It's still on my hot bar. I still press it before doing an Iaijutsu.
Everyone still presses it. Every time before an iaijutsu. Yes. In 6.1
Every SAM in the world still press the same amount of buttons. Nothing's changed.
Roll back the changes.

04-18-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-your-screw-up

Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep

As per title.
Is the flood of "Revert samurai posts" not enough?
You want feedback. We've given it loud and clear. What more do you want? We don't want to hear your spins. We don't want alternatives. JUST REVERT IT.

04-18-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...still-not-good

Originally Posted by Reesetti

I implore to the dev team once again, please reapply Kaiten. And while you're considering it, please retweak numbers to make Setsugekkas and Namikiris feel satisfying again. I understand the desire for consistency in damage, but that inconsistency is part of what makes Samurai very satisfying to play. And if you're wanting to lower our button count, there's a few redundant aoe buttons with single-target variants that could be combined into one button. Or turning Ikishoten into Namikiri after initial use. There's much better options than what was put into motion this patch.

04-18-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/460667-My-thoughts-on-6.1-SAM-changes-%28spoiler-I-don-t-like-them%29

Originally Posted by Kabzeel

In short the guaranteed crits are double blow to our fun in the job by normalizing the big numbers and by reducing the impact of proper gearing and melding.I will admit that not everything done to SAM was bad. I personally like the AOE changes, and the Meikyo Shisui and Third Eye changes are nice QoL changes, and I hope they get kept. But the other changes should be reverted at the earliest opportunity.

04-20-2022 https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ai-6.1-changes

Originally Posted by SiriusBreeze

And then 6.1 happened, and the last bit of thought that went into Kenki management has disappeared. Because Ikitoshen gives us enough Kenki for Senei anyway, we don't have to track Kenki. We don't really have to track much really. The self-buffs are so easy to maintain now you have to try to get rid of them. We still have our dot, thats good. We have Tsubame-gaeishi... I'm not that big a fan of Tsubame-gaeshi. Wirth 6.1, we lost Kenki, we lost our mechanic, we lost so much of what we loved about Samurai, and I have this glamour chest full of katanas I don't know what to do with... And I never asked for that. I never wanted that. I have never seen a Samurai complain about Kenki or Kaiten.

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ntity-is-gone.

Originally Posted by Theodric_Thorne

Normally these would sound like asinine and outlandish questions to ask, but given how these changes were touted as improvements for the job, I can't help but wonder if any of it was actually tested by people who like SAM to begin with. It reads more like someone completely unfamiliar with the job is trying to turn it into something else. Whatever that job is, please add it in 7.0 rather than dismantling this one. We liked SAM the way it was.

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-6.2-Endwalker

Originally Posted by YuuYun

The change to SAM was unacceptable this 6.1 patch and “requires” to be reverted. As of this moment I did quit SAM and threw all my BiS gear and switched to NIN for the upcoming Ultimate. And you gave me barely any time to switch my job.

Message to dev Team:
高難易度コンテントの前にジョブをこんなに変えるな！こっちは短時間で忍者の装備を集め絶シリーズの準備をしないといけないんです。
今後どの方向にFF１４は向かっていますか？召喚士のあとは侍あとどのジョブを殺すのですか？次は竜騎士と噂を耳にしていらっしゃるのですが。簡単だからいいて言うわけではないのです。なんのために色んなジョブがあると思っていらっしゃるのですか？

APMを下げたいためにこの変更をしたが：APMはほとんど変わらず、その上お客様を怒らせ, なにをしたいんですか？

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...l-enthusiastic

Originally Posted by Arycelle_Dania

Summary
The feel and flow of the gameplay is what makes samurai the job it is. It can be argued that there are unnecessary actions required to achieve the desired end result, but being consistent and mastery of such complexity are what gives me joy playing samurai.

I hope SE you can reconsider the changes you have made to samurai in the current iteration and restore the fantasy, feel and flow of the job once more.

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...I-can-t-do-it.

Originally Posted by Jkrexx

I usually lurk the forums and scroll posts every now and again, however I've decided to finally make an account just to give the devs their feedback they asked for. I've played the game for around 18,000 hours and I'm worried about the direction the game is taking so I guess it's time to start trying to speak up. / SAM changes feel bad, revert all of them and please stop stripping job identity from the game.
Thanks!

04-20-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ai-6.1-changes

Originally Posted by SiriusBreeze

I've felt a little adrift in the game, trying to find another job to click with. Was hoping I could join the edgelord gang as a Reaper, but I still find myself longing for my katana. Maybe tanking as a Gunbreaker will give me that new rush. Maybe I'll heal as a Sage and join the healer forum in protesting for a more involved dps toolkit. Maybe I need the fast GCDs as a Monk. I'm still searching for something that feels missing after I lost Samurai. But until we know the future of Samurai, I will post in protest!

04-22-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ai-Adjustments

Originally Posted by RadiantSun

The Samurai changes in 6.1 have made me not want to play the job.
I don't think I've ever posted in the official forums before, but the devs asked for feedback and I'd like to add my voice to the cacophony. In short, I am very unhappy with the removal of Hissatsu: Kaiten and some of the other changes in 6.1. / Hopefully that's useful feedback. I'm a relatively casual player who's been with the game since about 2.2ish, I don't step much further than Extremes due to not having the groups to play with. I like to have one job from each role to main, and samurai was my main melee dps. As it is now, I don't think I have a main melee dps any more.

04-22-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...low-of-the-job

Originally Posted by Cheenchilla

...i'm honestly so sad about this change that it's actually just killing my love for FFXIV in general now. Please put Kaiten back, please stop dumbing down jobs and please stop messing with things that no one is complaining about (i'm assuming no one had complained about kaiten pre-6.1, absolute madness if they had!) Instead, please invest the time into making us more glams ;D

04-22-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...78#post5920378

Originally Posted by GladiusAchilles

SAM has been my main since I started plying FFXIV.
The random removal of Kaiten has completely changed the flow of the job and it’s just not fun to play anymore :/ Bring it back please thanks o/

04-23-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...nges-6.1-again

Originally Posted by Liohna

(Eng is not my native language, sorry for mistakes)
Nothing new, the changes are just unaceptable,

Dev faces a shitstorm during a LL and so many people are complaining or switch to another job so MAYBE we can agree there is a problem here.
This can be really easily fixed: revert it. Now.

Get this changes 2 weeks before ultimate is quite embarrassing, nerfing and job and kill the fun that much just leads people to switch to another jobs, enjoy if you don't have bis on this job.

04-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...lancing./page2

Originally Posted by Fireon999

I want to speak to job balancing team. Are u in captivity of your greedy superiors? If so give us a sign, because changes of classes is simply not smart. Man, who loves this game cannot think off nonsense, which you did to Samurais in 6.1. No one asked you about it and its saying a lot about your competence. I'm so angry, i can't find words for this changes. And now you ignoring my brothers and sisters Samurais for 2 week, pretending you don't see our suffering. I hope you will find strength inside you to change the direction of job balancing to a different path, wich will lead to receiving more fun from playing and learning a job. Im sorry for being rude, but it's what i feel, and i can't silence myself.

04-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...us-back-kaiten

Originally Posted by SasakiItou-Malboro

Just making another useless post on how I hate the samurai job changes ad would like my kaiten back. Thank you. #bringbackkaiten #kaitenforthekaitenless #justiceforkaiten

04-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...i-as-requested

Originally Posted by Evelar

I never visit forums, I created an account solely due to how much the Samurai changes bothered me. Even my desire to play the game at all. Before the patch, I was playing every chance I got, doing the various roulette's multiple times a day just for the fun of it, and was very excited for Aglaia.
Throughout Endwalker, I had discussed with my friends how and why I felt Samurai was the most well designed class in the game, feeling nearly flawless. / After the changes in this patch, I do not enjoy the class, that I used to consider near perfect, at all. It feels gutted, empty, slow and disconnected

4-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ng-Sam-in-6.11

Originally Posted by WorldPeacElbow

I know I'm probably on copium but what are the odds that SE realize their mistake and revert Sam to its former glory in the patch today? :')

POST 10 ( After 6.11 )

=======================
Post 6.11 Threads
=======================

04-25-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...1-Buffs-to-SAM

Originally Posted by ShanaShirayuki

Nice to see that you're looking at the forums at the very least, but the core problem that you created with the 6.1 changes still remains: The class is not fun to play anymore; especially before an Ultimate drop where many statics had to change their lineup in order to get the utmost from their group compositions and synergy.

Give us a full revert and not these 100 potency band-aid buffs. It feels bad when other classes have higher potency 'big hit' abilities and buff synergy but we do not.
We've given you our feedback, and will continue to do so until the soul and fun of the class is restored. The below will keep happening until you do, and we do not want to wait until 7.0, or even the next Savage raid tier:

Could not have put it better myself (from The Balance Discord community):

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...erf-to-Samurai

Originally Posted by M_Red

Midare Setsugekka: Potency has been increased from 600 to 640.
Kaeshi: Setsugekka: Potency has been increased from 600 to 640.
Shoha: Potency has been increased from 500 to 520.
… Really? Just… really? They didn’t even need to buff the Namikiri attacks at all! They are still even a full two minutes cooldown even though their damage doesn’t warrant that long of a wait! /This is honestly pretty sad overall. Because of the changes barely anyone on my server is playing Samurai anymore. They’ve mostly switched to other classes.

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...1-SAM-changes.

Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep

Here. Let me give you the form of feedback you can fucking understand.



Good job. 6.11 Samurai changes clearly shows you listen.
Fuck you.

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ut-6.1-samurai

Originally Posted by ildranor

I always hear SE is different from other devs, they listen to their players. well seems that was a lie. its been 2 weeks since they destroyed samurai, its been 2 weeks of complains on the official forums were the vast majority of players want the changes reverted. yet SE does NOTHING. they dont even acknowledge the complaints. the 6.11 patch notes where they buff midare by 40 potency is just a slap in the face. i dont care if my jobs is 1.5% stronger or weaker. i want it to feel good to play. midare still being 20 potency weaker then before 6.1 AND kaiten is no longer there to buff it. it feels WEAK it no longer feels good to press the once most satisfying button in the game (imo). the reasons they give are bullshit. button bloat?

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Samurai-buffs

Originally Posted by MTReddy

The existing problems with Samurai, and a slew of other jobs, are not about damage numbers or "competitive viability". Jobs that aren't fun to play can never be fixed by changing potencies patch after patch, and the developers seem incapable of accepting this. I've been subbed for a total of 4 years, and have finally decided to take an extended break from the game until the developers have fixed the mess they have created.

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...61#post5926961

Originally Posted by Karious

Seriously. 6.11 only gave miniscule potency buffs to Samurai when that doesn't fix anything at all. You guys have been ruining one class after another and haven't listen to any feedback at all over the last few years. I don't even know why I bother supporting you or paying my sub.

Yes, its another thread. Yes, I'm mad.

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ai-you-cowards

Originally Posted by Kaseladen

This is abysmal

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...62#post5927462

Originally Posted by Diadem

Well, It is pretty clear that SE or Yoshi.P himself don't want to aknowledge mistakes and respect their player.

I will not go into an other 25 lines rant since we have pretty much all did it for the last two weeks. This is the last straw for me maybe it's the time for me to not let my favorite game going the SWTOR way so I'll vote with my wallet for the first time in 7 years of playing.

Have fun you all and see you maybe in 4+ months.

Naoki Yoshida, you lied us.

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-still-no-good

Originally Posted by Shilukk

Back again for the third time to calmly state that SAM is bad. At this point I HAVE stopped playing it while I move on to RPR for 90s content.
Kaiten is not optional. The job gauge has been gutted and serves no purpose. I press shinten when it lights up. If I'm feeling fancy, maybe I put the gauge on my screen for an EX for backstep and gapcloser greed. That's the only other use for it, and it's situational at best. / You've thoroughly gutted Samurai in raid comp. My static will yell at me for bringing it anyway. If you wanted to change crit buffs, the least you could have done is saved these changes to samurai for when they are in the game instead of bodying my DPS for no return and a vague promise for 6.2 changing crit buffs or something. The only promise I want for 6.2 is a reversion to 6.08. The varying, high damage is what makes the job fun for people. For me, just pressing kaiten was enough; but the nat crit ogi was pretty good too.

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-worked-hard..

Originally Posted by Leemon

..not



wish you all luck.

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...issatsu-Kaiten

Originally Posted by OrereO

Please, samurai feels incomplete without it, the kenki gauge now is just a shinten meter and it feels awful. Please.
Also while we're at it, please bring Aero 3 back, too, Holy spam gets really old really fast.
Thanks.

4-26-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-SAM-feedback.

Originally Posted by Rekun

6.11 SAM changes still don't address the problems created by 6.1 A 40 potency increase is not going to fix the hole in our rotation or the massive drop in DPS for the job. I was under the impression that Samurai was a greedy DPS so why does it do damage like it isn't?

04-28-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...keeps-identity

Originally Posted by Avenheit

>Revert changes to 6.08 samurai
>Combine Shoha 1 and 2 - 50% potency fall off after the first target
>Combine Ikishoten and Ogi-Namkiri
If you're still worried about "button bloat"
>Combine Guren and Senei

I don't expect to be paid for my brilliance, But I'll accept an NPC of my beautiful FemRa where you can only interact with her when you're on the SAM job class where you simply get the option to "Offer your Thanks".

04-28-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oodbye-samurai

Originally Posted by ranzou

Like others I see in these posts, I finally made a forum account after all these years to add to the feedback on samurai changes.

Absolutely terrible decisions were made here, enough to make me voice my opinion for something I care about. Please revert Goken if anything. Please bring back Kaiten, or at least program the animation into the beginning of Iaijutsu.

*sheaths katana and throws it into the Ruby Sea* No more pain.

05-03-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ate-prog-teams

Originally Posted by Xenon_S

Data taken from FFlogs world race page at May 3rd, 5:30PM PST
Out of the top 20 progressed teams that are logged, the DPS selection is as follows

RDM:16 SMN:6 BLM:1
BRD:10 DNC:9 MCH:1
MNK:15 DRG:12 NIN:8 RPR:2 SAM:0

This is not to say that SAM is not capable of clearing the latest ultimate.
But it is quite telling that something must be influencing the players' decisions to not play SAM.

5-04-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ZY.-Here-s-why

Originally Posted by Quor

There, I said it. It's been over three weeks since the 6.1 patch was released and SAM's have not been shy about giving their feedback. It's safe to say that the verdict is in; the changes are terrible.
/ To use a quote that Roxus provided us from the CN and KR servers: "But it doesn't stop there. CN and KR are also starting to get loud, while behind in patches, they know what's coming. Stop making adjustments for those who don't want to learn or improve. Existing users matter as much as new users." / They might very well see a new influx of players but they'd be abandoning some of their longest-term and most stalwart subscribers for a casual playerbase who most definitely isn't going to stick with them through the years."

05-04-2022 - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...amurai-changes

Originally Posted by ildranor

just letting SE know they cant just stay silent and hope people will accept the changes after a while, i wont atleast. thats it.

===================================
Several Samurai youtubers sharing their feedback,

Apr 1, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oub34tXOpgU
Apr 2, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIHj-1_Yn1U
Apr 5, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buFPkW6Nf5s
Apr 10, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALcN-cum8GY
Apr 11, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wiw6NG25I_s
Apr 11, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGLikZOx2Kk
Apr 14, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbOzSc8_I0I
Apr 23, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7uY9tRXtu8

found/linked/posted by " SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep "
===================================








All of these voices.... all this feedback... and this is excluding JP... are all " Invalid "... really...

FIX HEALS
FIX AST
FIX SAM