Do NOT bring Kaiten back

[cjbeagle]

You simply dismiss others as if their thoughts are wrong.

I actually don't mind being dismissed outright - some people don't want to debate - that's fine - what draws ire is when he dismisses our viewpoints as "cringy", says we're "stubborn fools" and "just resistant to change" as if our viewpoints have no rationale while simultaneously providing no rationale for his own [steaming] hot takes.

[Ransu]

Playing the game and knowing what you're doing are pretty significant differences. You do not know what you're doing based on all of your replies. Between your opinions on kaiten and your blatant ignorance on third eye....its best if people just ignore you.

[FrogBiscuit]

Of all moves, Third Eye is the next choice select people are putting forward for removal?

At this point, they can foolishly deny it till they are blue in the face, but its clear this is just malicious trolling at this point. Either that, or these people are hoping for the the game to be entirely changed from what it was to something entirely else, point and click easy. Think we are dealing with a level of self centered-ness that can be rationalized, or even communicated with.

Never my intent to insult or demean others myself... (call out foolishness, yes...) but removing third eye is just as idiotic as removing kaiten.

Don't have anything else to call it other then trolling when the suggestions are to effectively remove any skill that gives flavor and specific game feeling to a class.


You don't use Third Eye? Fine... Your loss. Just because you don't take advantage of something thats available to you, doesn't make it useless. It just means you have more to learn regarding the class, are just lazy and bad, or... well... we're circling back around to the 'obvious troll'.

[xAFROx]

Third Eye isn't bloat. It's an oGCD mitigation that gives an extra bit of gauge. It used to also grant a counter that was cheaper and on par with Shinten, as far as Kenki is concerned.

Kaiten was something that allowed for actual gauge management on a kit that hardly needs to do any sort of gauge managing at all. Without it, there's nothing to pool and nothing to think about. The job is more brainless than it used to be and the reward for doing our combos and building up Sen is barely a reward anymore as those same combos do the exact same damage as the iaijutsu.

There's a lot wrong with the design as far as class fantasy goes. No one has argued that it doesn't do well. The problem is the feeling. Like... like if you were to get a cheeseburger that naturally comes with all the usual condiments... but those condiments are just not there anymore.

You still have a cheeseburger, but its less than it should be. You can still eat it, and you can still enjoy the taste. But you know it's not what it was or should be.

Your strict adherence to the idea that the devs taking things away from us is good isn't bad. It's just different. But you telling us we're whining, or that we should get over it, or that we should just accept what we don't want, while also advocating for more removal is setting a lot of people off.

The way something is phrased matters, so if you're really genuine about expressing these differing opinions, maybe do so without coming across as antagonistic or condescending.

You'll get less pushback from folks that way.

Also keep in mind folks have grown frustrated over the extended silence from the devs. That's another reason why most of us are taking such comments with a lot of resistance.

[cjbeagle]

Third Eye isn't bloat. It's an oGCD mitigation that gives an extra bit of gauge.

The important thing about Third Eye isn't actually what it does though - it's what you have to do to optimize it, which is pay attention to all unavoidable AOE, which is normally something that only healers need to be mindful of.

The reward is important in terms of incentive, but its real value is the impact on gameplay by enticing you to pay attention to an entire additional facet of the encounter.

[Vencio]

The "SAM focus" in 4 hours/week average gameplay time, mostly spent in PvP? lol

How do I know? This way: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5958254

And you’re point….being?

Please ellaborate or peek further at my other posts

[Theodric_Thorne]

And you’re point….being?

Please ellaborate or peek further at my other posts

If most of your time spent playing SAM is only in PvP, it makes your opinions about Kaiten look laughably ignorant. Sure, you "play SAM" but jobs have such vastly different kits in PvE and PvP that they may as well be different jobs with similar aesthetics. I'm pretty sure Kaiten was never a part of SAM's PvP kit at any point in the history of this game.

If this was a thread about people being upset over Domino's Pizza changing the recipe for their pizza crust, you'd (hypothetically) be the guy insisting there was nothing wrong with the new crust, while conveniently forgetting to mention you've only ever ordered from their salad menu.

[Xenon_S]

First, I shall remain civil and attack your arguments only

1. In the 6.1 patch note reading stream, Yoshi-P specifically asked for players to provide feedback after they have played with the changes. We are doing exactly this. In both the JP and NA forums (FR/DE forums being unfortunately dead), there are innumerable players registering on the forums for the first time ever to voice their discontent.

2. In 5.0, Hagakure and Energy Drain was removed, causing massive outcry not unlike what we have here. The changes were reverted in the following patch. So no, it is not a done deal.

3. "No further logic needed" is just a bad faith argument. There have been threads dissecting and debunking every single reason the devs stated for the samurai adjustments - Be it to reduce action bloat, button bloat, reduce damage curve and variability, removing restriction - so on and so forth. None of the stated reasons holds up to scrutiny. Yoshi-P himself knows the changes are vastly unpopular during the patch note reading stream, having simply skipped through the samurai changes section without elaboration. The devs are human, they make errors and their logic isn't infallible, and they asked for feedback.

4. A vast number of controller players have experessed that they have no trouble keybinding everything, and Kaiten wasn't even a problem for the few who do feel the real estate getting tight.

5. Whether samurai feels fine or not is entirely in the subjective. However, what is objective is that there are fewer ways to expend Kenki, fewer nuances to using kenki, the big hits are numerically much lower than before, and samurai contributing less to the party in an optimized endgame encounter. Specifically in the new Ultimate, Samurai is the least played melee by far.

[Xenon_S]

Now then, let me address you, Vencio.

What is your deal here? If you are simply providing feedback, then most people would not have an issue, after all yoshi-P did ask for them and I have no intention of telling you otherwise.
But you seem to be dead set on disregarding all the dissenting voices, to the point of not engaging with valid arguments. Your responses mostly focused on replying to the ad-hominem attacks against you (which, I digress, is a bad form of argument)

So let me ask, why are you seemingly so against the notion that Kaiten could be reinstated?

By your own admission (in this thread and others), you have not been playing samurai for very long, nor do you engage in any content above MSQ difficulty. In any and all content that you engage with, you will not be required to play "optimally", so to speak. In any and all content that you engage with, you did not have to press Kaiten. This will not change even if they reinstate Kaiten.

If Kaiten is reinstated, you have the option of not pressing the button. It would not affect your gameplay. It would not affect the gameplay of the majority of samurai players who engage with the game at a casual, story level.

To be charitable, are you perhaps trying to defend the devs from attacks? Know that there is a distinct difference between providing sound criticism and personal attacks. In all the threads I've seen in the NA forums, even the most aggressively worded ones address only the devs' ability to do their job, and not their personhood. And, as stated above, the devs are not infallible, they asked for feedback, you do not need to defend them.

To be, well, less-than-charitable and bordering on an ad-hominem projection against you, are you perhaps insecure about your own inability and/or inadequacy to press one more button? Are you so petulantly unable to accept the fact that the gameplay have nuances and that others are playing better than you, that you delight in the fact that others be dragged down to your level?

[Vencio]

No, on the contrary its no business of mine’s how others cherish their gameplay, nor do I influence & so shouldn’t anyone.

I am not defending anyone or the Devs at all; again only stating my own thoughts.

Drag anyone at my level? Are you making this personal? Again only stating the current state of 6.1 seems to be at ease for me & I don’t have to bring an audience with mind-like individuals as much as you. For what really?

You’re still missing the point, I appraise the amalgamated abilities and either buff or remove one’s that its up to devs to deemed whatever measurement that may be & I am happy about it.

I appreciate your input nonetheless! Thankfully its civil