They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[VerdeLuck]

gatekeeping PF is a good thing

It can't be understated both how wrong this is and how much the developers disagree with this at a fundemental level based on past interviews and answers.
Before you start typing out some poor comparison to item level or duty completion, no those are not the same as gating based on a 3rd party tool or needing to do x damage or kick.

[Padudu]

It can't be understated both how wrong this is and how much the developers disagree with this at a fundemental level based on past interviews and answers.
Before you start typing out some poor comparison to item level or duty completion, no those are not the same as gating based on a 3rd party tool or needing to do x damage or kick.

Except on some levels you already have "gatekeeping" implemented, i.e ilevels, there is always going to be gatekeeping involved at a minimum. And sorry, but for savage content, you do need a minimum of gatekeeping. How are they not the same lol, at the very least, your ilevel is an indicator of you having the least bit of competency to complete the content. If they don't want the game to become a "dps or kick", then don't design the game that way.

I invite you to go to any pf p3s prog party, have fun getting stuck at adds, if they bother making it past darkened fire. P3S has tight dps checks, which means, if you are not passing you are wiping the party.

[Saraide]

It can't be understated both how wrong this is and how much the developers disagree with this at a fundemental level based on past interviews and answers.
Before you start typing out some poor comparison to item level or duty completion, no those are not the same as gating based on a 3rd party tool or needing to do x damage or kick.

On a fundamental level there exist DPS checks in savage and extreme fights, if your party cant clear them then dps is lacking. They design the game in a way that everyone has to contribute to that dps check. So the devs are very intentionally gatekeeping low dps people out of clearing. If one person lags behind everyone else and is preventing 7 other people from clearing than they should leave and work to improve their own skill.
I'm bringing up ilvl and duty completetion because they are by far the more useful metrics for PF. Nobody cares if you can hit x amount of dps on a target dummy, but when extreme and savage are relevant ilvl and duty complete gates ensure that you have atleast some semblance of an understanding, atleast enough to not hold up 7 other people permanently. This nightmare scenario yoship described in that one infamous lifeletter is an unrealistic one because ilvl and duty complete already do a way better job for way less effort.

Setting clear expectations is a healthy thing. If you pair up people who are looking for fast clears with people who are looking to prog the first mechanic, neither is going to be happy. This will only lead to frustration.

[Xtrasweettea]

It can't be understated both how wrong this is and how much the developers disagree with this at a fundemental level based on past interviews and answers.
Before you start typing out some poor comparison to item level or duty completion, no those are not the same as gating based on a 3rd party tool or needing to do x damage or kick.

If the developers disagreed with gatekeeping by using non-SE implemented methods found within the game, the developers should have just made all content available only through DF with no PF option. They should have never created PF as an option at all.

As long as PF is in the game, people will use gatekeeping beyond the minimal the game provides. It has nothing to do with being mean or cruel. It has to do with time.

Time is the one currency we cannot get paid back. So, if I create a PF and have to invest a non-refundable currency, I am going to mitigate risk of the loss of that currency spent in order to do this event.

If the game only gives a non-satisfactory amount of risk mitigation tools, I am going to seek or create my own tools or processes that will help me reduce risk. That might be requiring me to look at your historical logs, asking for several references you know that know you did the fight, Materia check, gear check, etc.

Not all PFs are the same on top of that. Two PFs for the same savage fight could be different. One could be for “first time clears.” The other could be for “farming only.” Both of those PFs will have different expectations and gatekeeping methods. You can guarantee that the “farming” PF will be looking at logs. They are not going to take the word of someone who claims that they are on “farm.”

All because time is the one currency SE development cannot program into your life. Time is a third-party currency that drives the use of the third-party tools and methodology.

[MiaShino]

It can't be understated both how wrong this is and how much the developers disagree with this at a fundemental level based on past interviews and answers.
Before you start typing out some poor comparison to item level or duty completion, no those are not the same as gating based on a 3rd party tool or needing to do x damage or kick.

Parties and especially statics already do this. Will state again because this seems to need mentioning once more. This is high level optional content. You do not require number aggregators to deduce that one or more party members is underperforming in hmm, let us say a farm party.

Huh, we should be skipping phase X. Hmm, by this amount of elapsed time we should be at X percent HP. Have not seen dance partner, where is it? No chain strat has been on the boss, why? Red Mage is not making contact with boss so they are obviously not doing melee. Not seeing much Glare from our White Mage probably will have to disband because we are not having this conversation in Savage.

Players participating in difficult content will have expectations and believing that damage is not and should never be factor is sillyness. No party lead is going to sit there willingly banging their head against enrage, they are going to leave duty > disband > blacklist. The option for fifteen minutes of Mothercrystal is not present here. This is not mandatory story mode content where that type of behavior is considered acceptable.

The requirements are simple for most group stuffs Savage+
Meld.
Eat food.
Pot.
Do mechanics.
Pass enrage.
Understand how to play your job to reasonable level.

If you find yourself being ejected from many groups for D.) Failing to pass enrage or E.)Barely understanding job fundamentals then it is time to look inward. Banning damage meters and attempting to force party leaders to stop kicking is not going to change anything. They will kick for which ever reason they decide. Tis their party their rules. Everyone who fails to comprehend this is free to form static or put up on PF. No one is stopping you!

You do not however get to walk into my house and demand I allow you to stay. That is fricken ridiculous. It is not "gatekeeping" if I forcefully eject your booty and no I do not need to give detailed reasons why. You join my static or PF you follow the rules or yeet boy.

[VerdeLuck]

Parties and especially statics already do this. Will state again because this seems to need mentioning once more. This is high level optional content. You do not require number aggregators to deduce that one or more party members is underperforming in hmm, let us say a farm party.

Huh, we should be skipping phase X. Hmm, by this amount of elapsed time we should be at X percent HP. Have not seen dance partner, where is it? No chain strat has been on the boss, why? Red Mage is not making contact with boss so they are obviously not doing melee. Not seeing much Glare from our White Mage probably will have to disband because we are not having this conversation in Savage.

Players participating in difficult content will have expectations and believing that damage is not and should never be factor is sillyness. No party lead is going to sit there willingly banging their head against enrage, they are going to leave duty > disband > blacklist. The option for fifteen minutes of Mothercrystal is not present here. This is not mandatory story mode content where that type of behavior is considered acceptable.

The requirements are simple for most group stuffs Savage+
Meld.
Eat food.
Pot.
Do mechanics.
Pass enrage.
Understand how to play your job to reasonable level.

If you find yourself being ejected from many groups for D.) Failing to pass enrage or E.)Barely understanding job fundamentals then it is time to look inward. Banning damage meters and attempting to force party leaders to stop kicking is not going to change anything. They will kick for which ever reason they decide. Tis their party their rules. Everyone who fails to comprehend this is free to form static or put up on PF. No one is stopping you!

You do not however get to walk into my house and demand I allow you to stay. That is fricken ridiculous. It is not "gatekeeping" if I forcefully eject your booty and no I do not need to give detailed reasons why. You join my static or PF you follow the rules or yeet boy.

You don't even have any jobs at 90. This strong stance about how you should be able to gatekeep players out of content is just strange to me given the fact you don't even have these fights unlocked yet.

[Sebazy]

You don't even have any jobs at 90. This strong stance about how you should be able to gatekeep players out of content is just strange to me given the fact you don't even have these fights unlocked yet.

Is gatekeeper the new buzzword of the day or something? Seriously though, calm down over there a little. Nobody wants to mindlessly gatekeep people out of content. Do you actually think the typical raider thinks 'wow there's just far too many PFs and people raiding today? Recruiting people for my static is way too easy. I sure wish the scene was half this size?'.

However, there is a very real barrier of progression (Keyword, Progression not Entry) that people do need to be able to reach to continue onward once you hit Extremes. DPS checks are a thing, yet the game does a really poor job of explaining anything beyond 'this button does this when you press it'. The value of weapon damage? Substats? Mainstats? The importance of 2 minute burst windows? When should I save CDs vs blowing everything?

IMHO any negatives (which can be instantly ruled out by SE changing absolutely nothing on their existing harassment policies I'll note) are easily counteracted by the benefits that some form of simplistic in game parsing tool could offer.

Right now a lot of players will hop out of a 24 man where pressing a button 10 times a minute is acceptable into an Extreme where it clearly isn't and have no idea why the content is chewing them up and spitting them out. This could be a potential avenue for them to explore to better understand where they are going wrong. I'm still firmly of the opinion that some kind of gold saucer mini game is the better approach to better facilitate this kind of use.

[MiaShino]

You don't even have any jobs at 90. This strong stance about how you should be able to gatekeep players out of content is just strange to me given the fact you don't even have these fights unlocked yet.

When you begin resorting to things such as this you have already lost the debate. Do you have any logical points for refuting what I said or not?

Again. My party my rules. If you feel entitled to clearing any content you wish with whomever you wish that tis strictly a you problem and it starts with selfish, ends with narcissistic. At this juncture am beginning to think 90% of this forum is just bad trolls. Surely no one huffs their own poots and enjoys it this much right? ... Right?

Am discussing Savage+ If you wish to find party that will allow you to "take it easy" or face roll the keyboard like everyone does in casual content you are in for bad time. The sooner some of you start accepting this the happier we shall all be. No one is gatekeeping anyone until Square somehow finds method for preventing you from forming a party/static yourself. Why is this confusing to some?

Go make a party right now! Farm - Learning - Clear for friend and test this out yourself. Bam! No more "gatekeeping". Work on finishing this tier might be better use of your personal time if we are resorting to that kinda nonsense.

If group checks your logs and kicks you there are three solutions you can explore;
Improve.
Find another group.
Make a PF/Static.

You cannot force a group to keep you if they do not wish to. Jeeeez, I hope this was concise enough.

[Padudu]

When you begin resorting to things such as this you have already lost the debate. Do you have any logical points for refuting what I said or not?

The fact that these forums will dig through to find logs and drop them into xivanalysis whenever they disagree with someone really calls into question how much these tools really are for personal improvement.
Just amazing how fast people who say it's only for personal improvement and they only look up their own will reach for it when they get upset at someone. Honestly it's why they shouldn't ever have that functionality in game.

He literally uses this as an argument against dps meters/parses, which like.. okay fine and true, people of the forum do check logs when conversations like this pops up. But then you disagree with his gatekeeping argument and the first thing he does is run to the lodestone to check your levels lol. And for what? It proves nothing

[VerdeLuck]

He literally uses this as an argument against dps meters/parses, which like.. okay fine and true, people of the forum do check logs when conversations like this pops up. But then you disagree with his gatekeeping argument and the first thing he does is run to the lodestone to check your levels lol. And for what? It proves nothing

His highest job level is literally linked inside of his post