They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[Semirhage]

..you didnt read the TOS before clicking "I accept"? That part about "third party programs'?



The moment you start throwing dps numbers about in contravention of the TOS, it IS their business.



Yes, it is , and has been so for a very long time.

Use the parser to analyse your own performance.....as long as you DONT harass others. LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALONE.

How hard is that?

Tell that to the toxic casuals mass reporting people for streaming with it.

I thought the reason it was disallowed was harassment potential.

*Clearly* that's not the case. In fact, dare I say, neurotic toxic casuals are encouraged by the TOS to harass anyone they suspect of parsing with reports. Because they did just last week.

So take your own advice, and LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALONE.

[Hoodcat]

look at when asmongold came, prolly same people harassed him bc they didnt want their game to be toxic. So their awnser was to grief and be toxic.

Toxic is gana be toxic when toxic can no mater the form.

[VelKallor]

Tell that to the toxic casuals mass reporting people for streaming with it.

In both the Arthars case and in this one, the suspension was enacted PRECISELY because they were streaming FF 14 content with addons visible. They were PUBLICALLY broadcasting a stream with addons they KNEW were not allowed.

Arthars was streaming from a VERIFIED Twitch channel.

Let me restate: they were streaming FF 14 raid content on a public channel whilst they were using addons and meters they KNEW they were not allowed to use. They were reported for that and rightly so. You may not like it, but they broke TOS and did so in front of thousands of viewers.

Im sorry they got suspended, but thats on them and no one else. It also sent a message to other streamers, dont do this. Hopefully, they will listen.

[Semirhage]

In both the Arthars case and in this one, the suspension was enacted PRECISELY because they were streaming FF 14 content with addons visible. They were PUBLICALLY broadcasting a stream with addons they KNEW were not allowed.

Arthars was streaming from a VERIFIED Twitch channel.

Let me restate: they were streaming FF 14 raid content on a public channel whilst they were using addons and meters they KNEW they were not allowed to use. They were reported for that and rightly so. You may not like it, but they broke TOS and did so in front of thousands of viewers.

Im sorry they got suspended, but thats on them and no one else.

Ah, the Motte and Bailey switch I knew was coming next.

So where's the problem? Rules exist for a reason. In theory, at least. Good rules should be written with attention paid to their foundational reasoning. Why are parsers against the TOS? I've heard over and over and over and over and over and over again that it's the harassment potential.

And the moment we point at a prominent example where the *stated reason* behind that rule wasn't in play at all, said rule was enforced anyway. So what is the takeaway from this? It's certainly not "harassment is bad". It's "third party tools are punishable if 5chan gets mad about it".

Claiming it's about harassment potential, then when confronted with the fact that public, visible enforcement has nothing whatsoever to do with harassment fleeing to the Motte of "who cares it's against the rules either way SO THERE" is a boring trick. Save it for the tourists. Your beef isn't with harassment, it's with the existence of facts. Stats. Math.

[MiaShino]

Now it's not a don't ask don't tell scenario. FFXIV has a bunch of Puritanical witch burning killjoys, and they can bite me.

This is what occurs when you have one stiflingly strict TOS.

People have not suddenly lost the urge to tell others to sod off they are only incapable of doing so.

Nope nope instead of two words we get fifteen paragraphs of passive aggressive. Cannot respond with sod off either ohhhhh no no. The ones that wield the TOS for purpose of bludgeoning others are so exceedingly good at identifying loopholes themselves. If they applied that same gumption to mastering their preferred jobs we would not even be having discussion about number aggregators.

Getting vibes most strong of "I was yeeted from my static and flamed in groups for my small peepee damage in WoW" from this thread.

Mmhmm! So they came to FF14 land hoping things would be different. Got the bad news! Nobody with a functioning brain will enjoy carrying dead weight, especially not when that dead weight decides to kick and scream like a toddler. Doth not matter how much moral grandstanding anyone does about how "accepting" they are. I get the feisty. They get the feisty. We all get the feisty.

There is not one single static in existence that requires damage meters to deduce the weakest link four days into prog. They know. Everyone present knows because everyone present is expending time for that clear.

No amount of banning third party tools is going to make others accept someone into high level content who is clearly not ready. Eat your food, take your tinctures, and have more then basic understanding of your rotation or stay away from the optional content if you cannot comprehend this.

Anyone who believed FF14 was somehow different from other mmos was only deluding themselves. Instead of typing "Am sorry, your damage is too low" they instead disband into silently blacklisting you. Tis unchanging fact of reality. No matter how rude the first statement may appear at the least it offers you something to parse. The second option merely leaves you wondering why.

[Rilifane]

I love how the people that have oh-so-much experience with oh-so-many MMOs keep ignoring the fact that the reason why straightforward insults were more common in WoW than here was the lack of moderation.
People only get temp/ perma bans in extreme cases. I saw the same people in battlegrounds saying things like "keep zerging like idiots, good fucking job you morons" for months and they didn't face consequences for their language. Adding to that that the MMO playerbase was younger in the earlier days of WoW than here and you had a bunch of teenagers/ young adults doing what they wanted. It doesn't take a genius to know where this would go but apparently it's still too difficult for some people to grasp the difference.

Parsers were not the reason for straight up insulting being more common there than it is here.
The lack of moderation was.
Accept it.
We have very strict moderation here.
Adding a parser would change nothing about the ToS to protect people from harassment or their enforcement.
So keep telling everyone and their grandma about your "But then everyone will scream and yell obscenities at the top of their lungs non stop and people are helpless against it" apocalyptic scenarios - it doesn't make them true and doesn't disguise that the true beef isn't with harassment when neither the ToS about harassment nor their enforcement would change.

[VelKallor]

So keep telling everyone and their grandma about your "But then everyone will scream and yell obscenities at the top of their lungs non stop and people are helpless against it" apocalyptic scenarios - it doesn't make them true and doesn't disguise that the true beef isn't with harassment when neither the ToS about harassment nor their enforcement would change.

I said that the parser was a factor, not a main cause. i never said otherwise. From one leads to the other. Quite frankly, Im not the only one who saw this, I could try and explain further, but theres no use in arguing with a closed mind. Suffice it to say that that factor is one in a concatenation of avoidable mistakes made over the last ten years.

[kpxmanifesto]

Literally just ignore VelKallor
They and their opinions are entirely irrelevant in this conversation
They just post emotional and nonsensical garbage to derail threads until their post count is done for the day and then log off

Yeah I get the feeling that they're unreasonably upset over the whole DPS parser thing - practically unhinged in a way.

[Padudu]

Literally just ignore VelKallor
They and their opinions are entirely irrelevant in this conversation
They just post emotional and nonsensical garbage to derail threads until their post count is done for the day and then log off

I'm surprised people are still engaging with them considering they were lying/being super sus about their "parse harassment" stories in the beginning of this thread lol

[Saraide]

Ah, the Motte and Bailey switch I knew was coming next.

So where's the problem? Rules exist for a reason. In theory, at least. Good rules should be written with attention paid to their foundational reasoning. Why are parsers against the TOS? I've heard over and over and over and over and over and over again that it's the harassment potential.

And the moment we point at a prominent example where the *stated reason* behind that rule wasn't in play at all, said rule was enforced anyway. So what is the takeaway from this? It's certainly not "harassment is bad". It's "third party tools are punishable if 5chan gets mad about it".

Claiming it's about harassment potential, then when confronted with the fact that public, visible enforcement has nothing whatsoever to do with harassment fleeing to the Motte of "who cares it's against the rules either way SO THERE" is a boring trick. Save it for the tourists. Your beef isn't with harassment, it's with the existence of facts. Stats. Math.

The classic it's bad because it's against the rules and it's against the rules because it's bad circle. If you get someone to break out of that, let me know. People like that would be upset about freeing slaves because it was technically against the law.