They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[Capstone]

Is it harassment I wonder when someone's application to a static is rejected because the 3rd party data collected about their character reveals quite plainly that they are dead weight? How about when the PF group disbands because even though nobody died enrage still didn't get cleared?

So much of this discussion is quite clearly not "people will use dps numbers to harass others" but actually "people will use dps numbers to harass me"

For all of the turbocasuals gleefully going "sucks to be you because Yoshida agrees with meeeeeeee" it really makes me think:

If anyone thinks that casuals can't be toxic about the fact that their damage is hidden, all I can say is think again. Being dead weight and proud of it or refusing to improve when constructive feedback is provided is toxic behavior. Making everyone else's life miserable absolutely counts. And we have also seen weilding the ToS as a weapon as certain sites have gone on mass reporting brigades of streamers.

Anyway, I've given up on doing roulettes without at a minimum the tank and healer being raid buddies, if not the whole stack being premade ideally. If I didn't need tomes for the tier I would skip them entirely, given that option. The trickle down effect of Yoshida's stance is that casual players are often very aggressive when offered basic advice on how to improve and, by extension, make the group's experience better. You can't ask anyone to do better in this game without releasing the "you don't pay my sub" kraken. That's what dps meters are about. It was never about harassment.

But worry not. If anyone is worried that high-end players will harass you about bad damage, you can rest easy. They don't want to play with you any more than you want to play with them, and to a very large degree they have the agency to ensure that outcome.

[Jeeqbit]

The trickle down effect of Yoshida's stance is that casual players are often very aggressive when offered basic advice on how to improve and, by extension, make the group's experience better. You can't ask anyone to do better in this game without releasing the "you don't pay my sub" kraken.

That's because they are not playing the game to optimize. They are playing the game to have fun, relax or enjoy the story. Just because you play for a different reason than they do doesn't mean that you should push that onto them. The only content where they need to be concerned about optimizing is fights with an enrage and advice in those fights is reasonable.

There could be any number of other reasons why somebody is not playing the way you think they should. It might be intentional because they disagree with you, they might be having a bad day and have just made a mistake or they are just relaxing leveling an alt job they don't normally play.

I've never seen anyone say "you don't pay my sub" seriously.

[Saraide]

That's because they are not playing the game to optimize. They are playing the game to have fun, relax or enjoy the story. Just because you play for a different reason than they do doesn't mean that you should push that onto them. The only content where they need to be concerned about optimizing is fights with an enrage and advice in those fights is reasonable.

There could be any number of other reasons why somebody is not playing the way you think they should. It might be intentional because they disagree with you, they might be having a bad day and have just made a mistake or they are just relaxing leveling an alt job they don't normally play.

I've never seen anyone say "you don't pay my sub" seriously.

No one seriously asks for high end optimization either. When I see someone only use cure 1 and medica in lvl 70 content I can clearly see that they dont give a fck about anyone else. They're just selfish. No one seriously cares if your buffs are always drifting a little bit but if you never use them, that just shows you dont care. What people like the person you quoted want is for everyone to try their best because this is a teamgame. And a lot of people are not and that ranges from someone having a bad day and messing up mechanics left and right all the way down to functionally being afk. To be fair however you dont need a parser to see that most of the time.

[CosmicCoqui]

Is it harassment I wonder when someone's application to a static is rejected because the 3rd party data collected about their character reveals quite plainly that they are dead weight? How about when the PF group disbands because even though nobody died enrage still didn't get cleared?

So much of this discussion is quite clearly not "people will use dps numbers to harass others" but actually "people will use dps numbers to harass me"

For all of the turbocasuals gleefully going "sucks to be you because Yoshida agrees with meeeeeeee" it really makes me think:

If anyone thinks that casuals can't be toxic about the fact that their damage is hidden, all I can say is think again. Being dead weight and proud of it or refusing to improve when constructive feedback is provided is toxic behavior. Making everyone else's life miserable absolutely counts. And we have also seen weilding the ToS as a weapon as certain sites have gone on mass reporting brigades of streamers.

Anyway, I've given up on doing roulettes without at a minimum the tank and healer being raid buddies, if not the whole stack being premade ideally. If I didn't need tomes for the tier I would skip them entirely, given that option. The trickle down effect of Yoshida's stance is that casual players are often very aggressive when offered basic advice on how to improve and, by extension, make the group's experience better. You can't ask anyone to do better in this game without releasing the "you don't pay my sub" kraken. That's what dps meters are about. It was never about harassment.

But worry not. If anyone is worried that high-end players will harass you about bad damage, you can rest easy. They don't want to play with you any more than you want to play with them, and to a very large degree they have the agency to ensure that outcome.

Well that kind of attitude is pretty much why Yoshi does not want to add official parsers in game. If people respond like this without one added, imagine if it was added...

[Rilifane]

Well that kind of attitude is pretty much why Yoshi does not want to add official parsers in game. If people respond like this without one added, imagine if it was added...

Except that there is nothing wrong with declining someone's application for your static if their logs clearly show that they don't meet the static's expecations. Nobody is entitled to a spot in a static just because they applied and it's well within the static leader's right to decline people based on whatever criteria they deem fit. Even if it's some as arbitrary as wanting a Hroth only static.
Nor is there anything wrong with disbanding a party or kicking the person that is holding a party back with their performance when they can't reach enrage despite nobody dying because believe it or not, nobody is entitled to other sticking with them in a party if they can't perform properly for the content they're doing.

And there are enough people out there who use the ToS as a shield while being passive-aggressive. It absolutely happens and it is the most common form of toxicity in FFXIV.
I don't think that anyone should perform at their best in DF content of all things and I rarely see the extreme cases of someone being auto attack afk, not healing nor dpsing, not using aoe at all etc. but preferring to run with friends instead of trying their luck with DF is also -again- completely within their rights.
Because isn't that exactly what people that like to contribute more always get told when this comes up? "Then just run in your uber premade"?

So why is it something negative if people get declined a static spot or kicked from a party because they are not performing at a level the content requires?
Why is it something negative that someone prefers to use DF only in (partly) premades because they don't want to deal with too much randomness in terms of gameplay?
Yes, it could've been worded differently. Point still stands: it's within their rights. Their party/ static/ premade, their rules.

Being informed =/= Being toxic. There's no part of being an ass, even, that's facilitated or encouraged by having a better grasp of the situation.

And people like to ignore that lack of informations causes finger-pointing in the entirely wrong direction while the person getting accused is completely defenseless against that. Having to leave isn't a defense by the way.
Just from last week of PF'ing (had my clears, just wanted to kill stuff for fun and help parties get their clears as well) I have two examples of this happening and in both cases it ended up with the party disbanding because it was impossible to shut the people up that blamed the wrong person and nobody wanted to stay in a party when they got wrongly accused of something either.