They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[Klytania]

An officially supported damage meter should be added, there is no good argument against this. All they need to do is allow people to simply set their damage to private if they can't handle potential criticism or just don't want to mess with it. Same way they did with the adventure plates.

They could even implement the feature with "private" as the default setting.

The information is already flowing that's how the current plug-ins work. All SE would need to do is add an in-game GUI that allows you to access it.

Being able to break down your damage and stats in a meaningful way is basically standard for most games like this, and it's insane that a game as big as XIV just ignores it. There are people I know who I keep trying to get into this game, but they won't because it is missing so many basic features like this.

Virtually nobody would quit because a damage meter was added (as much as they scream on twitter to the contrary, they won't). But more people would be interested in the game if it was updated this way. It's a net positive.

[Oopsy]

No.

https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU?t=260

[Klytania]

No.

https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU?t=260

Yes I've seen it, and I don't care. He's wrong.

You should actually read the post and formulate a thought of your own.

[Jason_Ashford]

Yes I've seen it, and I don't care. He's wrong.

You should actually read the post and formulate a thought of your own.

i have seen first hand how elitist and toxic it can be to rely solely on dps parse numbers when recruiting for parties in other MMOs, i am not eager to have that mentality brought into 14. You tell us to form a thought of our own, meanwhile you blindly reject any and all thoughts that don't agree with you, talk about hypocritical.

[Skiros]

i have seen first hand how elitist and toxic it can be to rely solely on dps parse numbers when recruiting for parties in other MMOs, i am not eager to have that mentality brought into 14. You tell us to form a thought of our own, meanwhile you blindly reject any and all thoughts that don't agree with you, talk about hypocritical.

I seriously don't get why people think this when high-end statics already filter with FFLogs lol?? A lot of players also kick you from weeklies if your logs look shit. This has been a thing since early Stormblood, if not late Heavensward (when they introduced cross-world PF).

It's not like you're preventing anything when it's already in FF14.

I'm personally against a damage meter not because of toxicity (shit argument), but because all it does is push players into approaching encounters in a highly one-dimensional way, which is exactly why Savage fights are such a snoozefest these days because it's designed EXACTLY to the parameters of the parsebrains. Official damage meters will cause even the casuals to tunnel on DPS and whine and cry whenever they lose more than one GCD of uptime.

Savage is literally so boring now even during progression because melee uptime is given to you for free. And I'm 100% sure it's designed this way because both NA and JP players care too much about DPS.

This isn't a toxicity thing, it's a "let's dumb down our game so that only one metric matters" thing.

I'm playing tank this tier and I genuinely feel like my mitigation is completely useless EVEN in Ultimate (DSR), outside of tankbusters. Bosses barely auto, my mit on party members don't mean jackshit because healing can be solved completely with healer oGCDs, etc. My mind is focused on optimizing damage even in Ultimate, on what in literally every other game would be considered a support with utility (tanking, aggro etc.)

(This is also why I'm having way more fun in Lost Ark compared to literally everything in FF14 below Ultimate because there are a LOT of things that all simultaneously matter: dodging, teamwork, DPS, using battle items, etc.)

IF they were to implement a damage meter, I want metrics other than DPS to be shown as well, like Lost Ark's MVP screen. Damage mitigated should be a thing on such a meter, along with eHP healed (i.e. HPS adjusted for mitigation and overhealing), mechanics successfully executed (track across a lockout), etc.

[Jason_Ashford]

I seriously don't get why people think this when high-end statics already filter with FFLogs lol?? A lot of players also kick you from weeklies if your logs look shit. This has been a thing since early Stormblood, if not late Heavensward (when they introduced cross-world PF).

It's not like you're preventing anything when it's already in FF14.

They can prevent wide-spread bullying by blocking any demands for parse logs being added in game. it's literally that simple.

I'm personally against a damage meter not because of toxicity (shit argument), but because all it does is push players into approaching encounters in a highly one-dimensional way, which is exactly why Savage fights are such a snoozefest these days because it's designed EXACTLY to the parameters of the parsebrains. Official damage meters will cause even the casuals to tunnel on DPS and whine and cry whenever they lose more than one GCD of uptime.

Savage is literally so boring now even during progression because melee uptime is given to you for free. And I'm 100% sure it's designed this way because both NA and JP players care too much about DPS.

This isn't a toxicity thing, it's a "let's dumb down our game so that only one metric matters" thing.

If you actually think it's not a toxicity thing, then you're even more Naïve than i thought. You need only look at games like WoW and ESO where parse logs are prevalent to see the amount of toxicity and bullying that it invites.

I'm playing tank this tier and I genuinely feel like my mitigation is completely useless EVEN in Ultimate (DSR), outside of tankbusters. Bosses barely auto, my mit on party members don't mean jackshit because healing can be solved completely with healer oGCDs, etc. My mind is focused on optimizing damage even in Ultimate, on what in literally every other game would be considered a support with utility (tanking, aggro etc.)

(This is also why I'm having way more fun in Lost Ark compared to literally everything in FF14 below Ultimate because there are a LOT of things that all simultaneously matter: dodging, teamwork, DPS, using battle items, etc.)

IF they were to implement a damage meter, I want metrics other than DPS to be shown as well, like Lost Ark's MVP screen. Damage mitigated should be a thing on such a meter, along with eHP healed (i.e. HPS adjusted for mitigation and overhealing), mechanics successfully executed (track across a lockout), etc.

The only reason most of the people asking for parses want logs specifically for DPS. you know darn well that if they added parses without DPS checks, these same people would piss and moan about it because they only want parses so they can gatekeep endgame content and block less skilled players from completing content.

[Ashliet]

He's not really wrong. You can think he's wrong but it doesn't make you right
Others in this thread have stated multiple valid reason for why it's a bad idea.

[CerusSerenade]

Yes I've seen it, and I don't care. He's wrong.

You should actually read the post and formulate a thought of your own.

So you're just denying the entire history and culture of WoW where entire expansions were predicated on arbitrary "Gear Score" or DPS meters that were used to judge you at every opportunity?

You talk about how we should "formulate a thought of our own" but the only way you could believe what you're saying if is you're entirely ignorant of WoW's history which this game is heavily inspired by. Do you HONESTLY think that no matter how "private" or "optional" this hypothetical DPS meter would be, players WOULDN'T be asking to see it in high end rating if you applied to a high-end static or FC? If you do, then you're detached from reality and there's nothing to be gained by further conversation.

How I would do it if it were up to me:
For most content, DPS meters would be strictly private; you could only see your own DPS. You cannot see other players DPS, and they cannot see yours.
"Full" DPS meters (Where you can see other players DPS) would be for elite content only, such as extreme trials, savage/ultimate raids, Baldesion Arsenal, Delubrum Reginae (Savage), Palace of the Dead (Floors 101+), and Heaven-on-High (Floors 31+).

The problem with this is that players would be pressured to take screenshots of their DPS and share with people they're applying to FC/Static with.

Stone Sea Sky is all you need to see if you're properly making the DPS threshold.

[Capstone]

Is it harassment I wonder when someone's application to a static is rejected because the 3rd party data collected about their character reveals quite plainly that they are dead weight? How about when the PF group disbands because even though nobody died enrage still didn't get cleared?

So much of this discussion is quite clearly not "people will use dps numbers to harass others" but actually "people will use dps numbers to harass me"

For all of the turbocasuals gleefully going "sucks to be you because Yoshida agrees with meeeeeeee" it really makes me think:

If anyone thinks that casuals can't be toxic about the fact that their damage is hidden, all I can say is think again. Being dead weight and proud of it or refusing to improve when constructive feedback is provided is toxic behavior. Making everyone else's life miserable absolutely counts. And we have also seen weilding the ToS as a weapon as certain sites have gone on mass reporting brigades of streamers.

Anyway, I've given up on doing roulettes without at a minimum the tank and healer being raid buddies, if not the whole stack being premade ideally. If I didn't need tomes for the tier I would skip them entirely, given that option. The trickle down effect of Yoshida's stance is that casual players are often very aggressive when offered basic advice on how to improve and, by extension, make the group's experience better. You can't ask anyone to do better in this game without releasing the "you don't pay my sub" kraken. That's what dps meters are about. It was never about harassment.

But worry not. If anyone is worried that high-end players will harass you about bad damage, you can rest easy. They don't want to play with you any more than you want to play with them, and to a very large degree they have the agency to ensure that outcome.

[Jeeqbit]

The trickle down effect of Yoshida's stance is that casual players are often very aggressive when offered basic advice on how to improve and, by extension, make the group's experience better. You can't ask anyone to do better in this game without releasing the "you don't pay my sub" kraken.

That's because they are not playing the game to optimize. They are playing the game to have fun, relax or enjoy the story. Just because you play for a different reason than they do doesn't mean that you should push that onto them. The only content where they need to be concerned about optimizing is fights with an enrage and advice in those fights is reasonable.

There could be any number of other reasons why somebody is not playing the way you think they should. It might be intentional because they disagree with you, they might be having a bad day and have just made a mistake or they are just relaxing leveling an alt job they don't normally play.

I've never seen anyone say "you don't pay my sub" seriously.